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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,
This is my first post here. I've been lurking about 5 years :glasses: and I have about 14 years exp. Anyway, I'm looking for recommendations for a clay brick primer. Frankly I don't paint alot of brick in my 15-20 year old S.E. suburban areas. When the rare occasion arises, I usually just use gripper (the only Glidden product I use) and it works great. 10+ years with no problems etc.

But I'm starting to pick-up jobs in an older intown area. These are basically very dry, 50-60 year old, well-kept houses. The older clients are slowly selling out due to in-fill and they want to "modernise" their 50's style ranches with a coat of paint before they go... Yea...

So far I've seen suggestions for:
Luxon - This looks like serious over-kill on these jobs and doesn't fit their price-point either.
Seal-create - This line looks like mostly watersealers, block primers and garage floor stuff. Not what I'm looking for here I don't think? (If I'm wrong please advise which one in particular)
123 - which I use everyday, I just never considered it for this application (TDS states that it is alkali resistant)
Perma-crete, don't know anything about it but PPG never let me down yet. Well almost never.

ATM, I leaning toward the PPG or just sticking with what works, but I just thought this would be a good opportunity to try something else.

I won't use cheap material, but Ben-Moore, low-coverage problem child fixers etc. don't fit this particular value-oriented market. Needless to say I won't be top-coating elastomerics either. Thanks
 

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Welcome to the forum. Seems that you've done your homework! Personally, I'd use loxon or perma crete.

"If all else fails, blame the drywallers."
 

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Seal Krete Original is actually a great primer for brick. Especially old brick if the mortar is a little crumbly.

I've been using Loxon masonry primer on big brick jobs lately though. Works great.


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What is your price point for Loxon? I'm just curious what you consider expensive?

I'm not familiar with Perma-Crete, but I have used Loxon several times and never had an issue. You can always prime with Loxon and topcoat with something cheaper.


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Discussion Starter #5
Good question. I'm awaiting some price updates from my SW rep. Anyway at 200-300 sq.ft coverage it got to be more than something going on at 300-400 right? Add the extra labor for backrolling thick material on brick and I'm pretty sure I can find a performant product to beat it. I'll run the numbers and I let you know when I get pricing.

What do I consider expensive for primer? I don't blink an eye at $45/gal. (tax included) for BIN when I need it. But for house sized exterior projects, something around $25/gal. seems "reasonable" to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Seal Krete Original is actually a great primer for brick. Especially old brick if the mortar is a little crumbly.

Thanks for pointing out the right Seal Krete. Now I can add that into consideration. Nothing crumbly on these jobs. These houses are well-kept. It seems a shame to paint them at all.
 

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You've gotta remember that coverage for brick and rough surfaces can be very hard to calculate. Buy extra primer and return what you don't use (if you don't tint it). Once you're finished priming you'll know how much of your top coat to buy.


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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Okay here is the result of my primer comparision. FWIW

I was hoping someone could chime in on the Luxon line in particular. My rep gave me coverage figures of 275 sq. ft./gal. on both Luxon and Luxon xp. He's new and I don't really trust him yet. So I prefer to use the figures stated in the TDS for comparison purposes.

All data is from manufacturer's TDS (averaged when a data point is given as a range.) Prices are from my reps. I'm not doing alot of volume on this so the prices are not that good but I can work with that ATM.

First question is what would be a realistic figure for coverage using Luxon xp when applied to clean, ordinary clay brick? I've already calculated a real surface area factor of 1.625 to cover edges etc. so that's not a factor.

The other is consideration, assuming that luxon XP can cover at something reasonable like 275 sq. ft./gal, would it make sense to use two coats of that rather than one coat of another primer and two top coats?
I'm not much of a believer in prime+paint hype. But I've found no-one complaining about Luxon xp todate.

Unless someone can provide something compelling, it's looks like my go to - Gripper is still the winner.
 

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Okay here is the result of my primer comparision. FWIW

I was hoping someone could chime in on the Luxon line in particular. My rep gave me coverage figures of 275 sq. ft./gal. on both Luxon and Luxon xp. He's new and I don't really trust him yet. So I prefer to use the figures stated in the TDS for comparison purposes.

All data is from manufacturer's TDS (averaged when a data point is given as a range.) Prices are from my reps. I'm not doing alot of volume on this so the prices are not that good but I can work with that ATM.

First question is what would be a realistic figure for coverage using Luxon xp when applied to clean, ordinary clay brick? I've already calculated a real surface area factor of 1.625 to cover edges etc. so that's not a factor.

The other is consideration, assuming that luxon XP can cover at something reasonable like 275 sq. ft./gal, would it make sense to use two coats of that rather than one coat of another primer and two top coats?
I'm not much of a believer in prime+paint hype. But I've found no-one complaining about Luxon xp todate.

Unless someone can provide something compelling, it's looks like my go to - Gripper is still the winner.
The loxon xp is also a great product on protecting against efflorescence. You can ask any SW rep what they think. They will all give glowing reviews. It's the best product out there. I will say it is a very heavy paint. It's best if you can spray it.
 

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We used much Perma-Crete when we did new homes. I default used it on new Hardi and other fiber cement.

I have some sitting at 8 years or more and they still look good. It's a solid product, as is Loxon.

Tomaytoe, Tomahtoe
 

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Unless this place is huge you might be talking about a 1-2 gal difference depending on the product and that's only if the product is applied at recommended WFT.

In the real world it's rare to see anyone use a mill gauge and depending on the porosity and shape of the brick you could have a wide variance in the square foot coverage anyways.

I'd recommend that you focus more on choosing a product that you believe will perform the best. There's a reason everyone is recommending Loxon and Seal Krete, because they're known to perform well on brick.

If you're interested in Loxon see if your SW rep can set you up with a test drive. It should be about a 50% discount.


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Okay. I read the post, but have a few questions.

LOXON. Has different product lines within the loxon family, all for different reasons.

What exactly are you needing to do? Fill pores, deal with chalkiness? etc.

For example.
LOXON conditioner, is meant to deal with chalkiness and lower pH levels of newer masonry, prior to paint coating. It does a few other things but that's the main point.

LOXON block surfacer is designed to be a thick paint like product to fill pores, etc. Consistency and spread rate are drastically different between the two products, as well as how to apply them.


From what it sounds like to me. Your looking for a basic "paint primer" prior to painting the surface.

Do yourself a favor and ask your SW rep or manager to look into Prep-Rite Block Filler. It's pretty good stuff and we use TONS of it. The price point, for me anyway, is better than anything you've listed so far.

https://www.sherwin-williams.com/painting-contractors/products/preprite-block-filler

Check it out.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Unless this place is huge you might be talking about a 1-2 gal difference depending on the product and that's only if the product is applied at recommended WFT.

In the real world it's rare to see anyone use a mill gauge and depending on the porosity and shape of the brick you could have a wide variance in the square foot coverage anyways.

I'd recommend that you focus more on choosing a product that you believe will perform the best. There's a reason everyone is recommending Loxon and Seal Krete, because they're known to perform well on brick.
The jobs are just averaging about 4,000 sq ft. of brick so they are not huge. Of course I'm not playing with mil gauges. Coat to cover and done.

I consider price point a performace characteristic just as much as anything else. Though I do understand and appreciate what your saying here. My only question at this point is:

How many sq. ft. of plain ordinary 8x2.25 clay brick will one gallon of luxon xp cover? Closer to 100 or 275 sq.ft.?
 

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Okay. I read the post, but have a few questions.

LOXON. Has different product lines within the loxon family, all for different reasons.

What exactly are you needing to do? Fill pores, deal with chalkiness? etc.

For example.
LOXON conditioner, is meant to deal with chalkiness and lower pH levels of newer masonry, prior to paint coating. It does a few other things but that's the main point.

LOXON block surfacer is designed to be a thick paint like product to fill pores, etc. Consistency and spread rate are drastically different between the two products, as well as how to apply them.


From what it sounds like to me. Your looking for a basic "paint primer" prior to painting the surface.

Do yourself a favor and ask your SW rep or manager to look into Prep-Rite Block Filler. It's pretty good stuff and we use TONS of it. The price point, for me anyway, is better than anything you've listed so far.

https://www.sherwin-williams.com/painting-contractors/products/preprite-block-filler

Check it out.
Yes, paint primer only. Sorry, I thought I made that clear in the original post. Thanks for the link.
 
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