[florin]

I found a builder who wants to paint 2 buildings exterior only. It's not hard and they r only 20' high. He agreed to buy the paint instead of giving me the money as a down payment.

But he doesn't want to rent or give me money for scissors or areal lift. He says it is my job to rent it but he will pay that money back to me as soon as I return the equipment I just need to show him receipts. That thing costs about $1500 for 1 week. He claims he had bad experience in the past with people whom he gave money in advance.

I don't know if I can trust him. I fear he might not pay me or something because the whole deal would cost him over $15 000.

Any advices?

 

[AALory]

Why do you need a lift for a 20' house? Do you have any ladders? I would think ladders for a repaint are much cheaper unless you are doing some serious prep work.

 

[bikerboy]

Grow a set and tell him you want one third down before you start. Do you have a written contract to cover your butt?

 

[aaron61]

It sounds very unprofessional to me. The cost of any rental equipment should be incorporated into the price of the project. If you cannot afford this you probably are not ready to take on a job like this and at 20' I would definetly think ladders or rolling scaffold would be easier depending on what you are painting

 

[Slingah]

If you fear that he's not going to pay you...simply don't do it....or get him to sign a contract and get a payment schedule....

 

[tsunamicontract]

get a bulletproof contract and I would recommend ladders or a rolling scaffold, they will actually probably be faster than a lift if you have long distances of low heights. What kind of substrate and how many linear feet?

 

[bikerboy]

He agreed to buy the paint instead of giving me the money as a down payment.

So he gets to write off the material.

But he doesn't want to rent or give me money for scissors or areal lift.

Should not need one.

He says it is my job to rent it but he will pay that money back to me as soon as I return the equipment I just need to show him receipts.

So he gets to write off the rental, but is he paying you for the time you spent picking up and droping off?

That thing costs about $1500 for 1 week. He claims he had bad experience in the past with people whom he gave money in advance.

So you suffer because of his bad choices? Did he deal with a licensed contractor? Did he have a contract that covers his butt? Or is trying to take advantage of you and using his "bad experience" as cover?


I don't know if I can trust him. I fear he might not pay me or something because the whole deal would cost him over $15 000.

Myself and others have cautioned you to get a contract and have him sign it. If he is dealing with you in good faith, it should not be a problem. If he refuses, you should walk.

You are computer litterate enough to type on this forum, make up your own contract or download a template from microsoft.com. If you need help, I am sure somebody here could come up with a bare bones agreement of some sort.

Any advices?

COVER YOU A$$! GET IT IN WRITING! Spell out exactly what you intend to do, the materials, method of application, services you intend to deliver at the price you intend to charge. Then have him sign it. If he is a professional builder of any repute, he has seen and signed such contracts before.

 

[JNLP]

He agreed to buy the paint instead of giving me the money as a down payment.

So he gets to write off the material.

But he doesn't want to rent or give me money for scissors or areal lift.

Should not need one.

He says it is my job to rent it but he will pay that money back to me as soon as I return the equipment I just need to show him receipts.

So he gets to write off the rental, but is he paying you for the time you spent picking up and droping off?

That thing costs about $1500 for 1 week. He claims he had bad experience in the past with people whom he gave money in advance.

So you suffer because of his bad choices? Did he deal with a licensed contractor? Did he have a contract that covers his butt? Or is trying to take advantage of you and using his "bad experience" as cover?


I don't know if I can trust him. I fear he might not pay me or something because the whole deal would cost him over $15 000.

Myself and others have cautioned you to get a contract and have him sign it. If he is dealing with you in good faith, it should not be a problem. If he refuses, you should walk.

You are computer litterate enough to type on this forum, make up your own contract or download a template from microsoft.com. If you need help, I am sure somebody here could come up with a bare bones agreement of some sort.

Any advices?

COVER YOU A$$! GET IT IN WRITING! Spell out exactly what you intend to do, the materials, method of application, services you intend to deliver at the price you intend to charge. Then have him sign it. If he is a professional builder of any repute, he has seen and signed such contracts before.

Yep what he said. :thumbup:

For a 20' building I wouldn't rent a lift. It would be cheaper to just buy ladders & picks, or scaffolding, or both, and save alot of money but have them for future use also.

 

[florin]

Thanx all for replies. Of course I am going to have him sign a contract, I even e-mailed him one I made so he can go through it and he told me we need to change some things such as titles etc.

He is appearently willing to pay in full within 3 days of job completion. Thats what I put into the contract agreement.

But I don't know if I can use ladder because there is lots of metal near the top that needs spraying. The metal is about 6 feet high and about 100 feet long. And it is not flat so rolling or brashing it is out of question.

 

[1800Upstate]

Think about it

I get the impression that you really want to do the job because you like the sound of the money, (like we all do). Don't get caught chasing the scent of money while ignoring your gut instinct and the fact that this guy is taking advantage of you. Absolutely get a payment schedule that includes 1/3 for materials and some labor to start. I always set up my schedules so that I'm "ahead of the money". A good contract protects him and you. Don't make any exceptions, he wouldn't expect to wait until the house was built to get paid by his custmer, would he? Just my two cents. 1880Upstate

 

[PressurePros]

My spidey sense is tingling.

 

[vermontpainter]

What I think alot of us are missing is that as business owners, we should be writing the terms under which we perform the work. Not having them dictated to us.

 

[NEPS.US]

What I think alot of us are missing is that as business owners, we should be writing the terms under which we perform the work. Not having them dictated to us.

Exactly. The problem is that many builders prey on contractors with a greater need for the work. I've never made a bad deal with my schedule over booked. I have never met a builder that is 100% honest. He is trying to make a buck and will cut your throat to do so.

I have a builder that calls me ever month or so to price jobs. The conversation always starts out the same "Are you busy?". When I tell him that business is great he starts groaning. I'll price his job and he'll whine about my price and will try to get me down. I havent done a job for this guy in over a year but will still take his calls and price his jobs because when he needs a quality job done ....he pays for it.

 

[vermontpainter]

Exactly. The problem is that many builders prey on contractors with a greater need for the work. I've never made a bad deal with my schedule over booked. I have never met a builder that is 100% honest. He is trying to make a buck and will cut your throat to do so.

I have a builder that calls me ever month or so to price jobs. The conversation always starts out the same "Are you busy?". When I tell him that business is great he starts groaning. I'll price his job and he'll whine about my price and will try to get me down. I havent done a job for this guy in over a year but will still take his calls and price his jobs because when he needs a quality job done ....he pays for it.

That same guy calls me several times a year.

 

[florin]

These 2 buildings that I want to paint are his own. He rents out bunch of stores in them. I am not thinking about the money right now, I am thinking about doing a good job. But of course I gave him my price and he has agreed.

He told me he has been screwed by painters, tapers, texturers and drywallers before. He says he gave them money in advance and never found them again or had other problems. He will buy the paint and deliver it to the buildings.

Maybe he wants me to rent the scissors lift as assurance I'm a serious about the job. Once again he promised to pay for it as soon as I return it and provide receipt. (he will sign it too) Btw I need this equipment for metal only which I would do first and the walls I would do later.

There is no time limit and he wants it done this year so I can do it when ever I like.

 

[vermontpainter]

He told me he has been screwed by painters, tapers, texturers and drywallers before. He says he gave them money in advance and never found them again or had other problems. He will buy the paint and deliver it to the buildings.

Boo hoo...there are many more cautionary tales about the painter that got screwed by the GC than vice versa. You need to tell him that you are not going to pay for the sins of the bad guys. Your challenge is to demonstrate to him that you are one of the good guys. To me, his behavior seems to be that of a GC on the ropes.


Maybe he wants me to rent the scissors lift as assurance I'm a serious about the job.

Again, you should be putting just as much pressure on him to prove that he is worthy of your energy as vice versa.

 

[NEPS.US]

You should tell him stories about GC's not paying their sub's.

Don't be too eager to come to his defence when he hasn't payed you a dime yet. You are doing exactly what he wants you to do.......feel sympathy for him. Whats the point of bidding the job if he is providing the materials and eventually paying for the lift. He should not even know what percentage of your estimate is materials or equipment. Why not just work for him by the hour, get paid weekly and avoid future headaches.

 

[Housepainter]

You should tell him stories about GC's not paying their sub's.

Don't be too eager to come to his defence when he hasn't payed you a dime yet. You are doing exactly what he wants you to do.......feel sympathy for him. Whats the point of bidding the job if he is providing the materials and eventually paying for the lift. He should not even know what percentage of your estimate is materials or equipment. Why not just work for him by the hour, get paid weekly and avoid future headaches.

I agree with this too. Come up with the Time per hour, and let him know when you need the lift delivered or other equipment. Let him deal with the rental delivery and pick-up directly. Most of these companies will deliver and pick up at the sight. Determine the brand of paint he wants, is it what will work on the surfaces in a quality way.

Do not take this job as a lost leader to get other work from him like the interiors of the stores.

 

[vermontpainter]

Good point HP. If I have to deal with scheduling and renting the lift, I am certainly not going to hand him the slip on that without a markup. Makes me think the GC doesnt have sufficient credit to even secure a lift.

 

[Wing 54]

Ditto what VP just said. This is a good red flag for credit problems.