smoke damage

If there are "smoke particles(black)cobwebs" on the ceiling, then there is smoke stain/damage. Brown or not.

As much as I hate most things Zinsser, they know what they are doing with shellac.

IMO, B-I-N has always set the standard for blocking smoke stains and even odor. AND yes, wash the area first. I always liked clear ammonia.

I never had as good performance over smoke with other stain blockers. Each are good for different stains.

[email protected] said:

It doesn't bleed through like nicotine or water damage stains.

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Jason,

Gotta disagree on this one. Most smoke is lamp black - carbon. Lamp black is one of the most virulent colorants.

All smoke I know also has other solids in it, such as creosote or grease or other chemicals that will leech and come through a finish paint. It may not come through a heavily bodied paint in time for you to cash the check, but it WILL come through a "regular" paint in the future.

Shellac has been an age tested sealer. The white pigment in B-I-N makes it, IMO, the best choice to STOP smoke stain bleed-through.

-Bill

tsunamicontract said:

don't things like Creosote and grease need to get washed with TSP, not just ammonia?
I am not questioning anyone anyone on BIN, but why does it or a shellac work so much better than say Cover Stain. I am just not a huge fan of BIN and am always looking for something else to use instead. Not that CS is that much better to deal with but.

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TC,

IMO, ammonia is one of the best grease cutters, and it evaporates if you don't rinse completely clean. TSP is a good detergent, but I hate how difficult it is to rinse. (Your milage may differ). When I used to wash houses (by hand with dairy brushes, mind you), the solution was water, bleach, TSP, and a non-ionic detergent (liquid dish soap). Yup it worked, but damn, lotta rinsing.

Shellac is just one of those coatings that presents a great barrier. I find that it doesn't work well on alcohol based inks (Magic Marker et al), but for knots and smoke, it is the ballz. And, in case you didn't get the memo, B-I-N is a white pigmented shellac.

tsunamicontract said:

Does your clear ammonia have the typical ammonia smell?

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"Clear" as opposed to "sudsy" ammonia, and yes, it DOES have the typical ammonia smell! Prolly even more.

If you go to a janitorial supply house you can buy INDUSTRIAL strength. That'll burn a hole through your sinuses quicker than snorting white crosses.

I used to use ammonia for stripping wallpaper. But I realized no one liked the smell - although I got so I could barely notice it.

We oughta start a thread about which stain blockers block which stains. CS, Kilz (oil), B-I-N, and the others all seem to work best on a certain category of stains. I used to know what to use when facing crayons, magic marker, smoke, "washable" markers, etc. It be a good resource for all to have the right sealer for each particular stain.

Bender said:

oil based kilz blocks the oder as well

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Oil Kilz does have its uses, but I've never know it to seal all smoke stains. Have they changed the formula in the past 15 years?

sage said:

I would not consider using anything else for smoke, stains, knots and anything else that may need to be blocked. I keep a quart in the truck at all times.
Sage

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Sage, don't get me wrong, I think B-I-N is the best stain sealer for many stains. BUT it is NOT a panacea. There ARE stains that bleed through it. I wish I could remember the list, but it's been to many years.

Kilz has its list of stains it will block, as does Cover Stain and every other one.

As I said in a previous post, we should compile a list of what stains each stain sealer will actually seal.