I sprayed out some doors today and when I was finished was checking them over when I spoted a sag/run whatever you want to call it. So I went to run a foam roller over it and it peeled off the door looking like a busted balloon! Just curious as to how to handle it, I figured maybe just try to sand it down- possibly wet sand or would I need to fill the inconsistantsy with some kind of patch then sand it smooth. Any help as always is appreciated, Thank you
sprayed doors/ sagging
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Joined
·
551 Posts
We had the same problem last week. We sprayed 28 doors in two batches with the pivot-pro system and a titan 440 with Synergy 210 fine finish tip. Here's what I learned from the entire process and I will address the runs.
1) We had always used the HVLP for doors and trim but this job was a new construction where I knew the standards weren't going to be as high as we're used to so I decided to try the 440 with fine finish tip. It was much faster and I was very impressed with the finish we acheived with this setup . . . The first five or so doors we did, I was spraying back and forth in about two-foot sections, triggering the gun on and off. The gun was spitting. I actually only swithed because my fingers were getting tired from all the triggering but I decided to spray entire sides of doors without letting go of the trigger. The result was no spitting from the gun at all, hence a smoother finish.
2) The first batch of doors we did, I really flooded out both coats. Why not, right? Did the first coat, came back when they were dry, they looked great, so we sanded and did just as heavy of a second coat. WRONG. When we came back the next day to hang them and get started on the next batch, we noticed runs everwhere. What I took from this is the following: You can spray your first coat quite a bit heavier because the paint absorbs into the primer a little more, causing it to hold tighter and dry faster. When you come back on the second coat, now you're spraying over a hard semi-gloss finish. Even after a quick scuff-sand, still a pretty slick surface. The paint sits on top of this slick surface, taking longer to dry and finds the time to sag/run . . . As for touching them up, we hung them and sanded out the sags. I floetrolled (you've never heard it used as a verb before!) the hell out of the semi-gloss, picked my best sniper purdy and went to work. I didn't just touch up but painted whole panels or whole sides, you get the point. Can you see the difference between what is brushed and sprayed? I can but I can say for a fact that it won't be an issue with the builder. It looks very good in my opinion.
3) Second batch was sprayed first coat heavy, second coat much lighter. Now, when you're spraying intentionally lighter you have to be extremely careful not to miss (i.e. keep your overlapping spray pattern exactly the same. Think of yourself as a machine that makes the same exact movements every time). DO NOT miss because you will see these misses when the light hits the door at just the right/wrong angle.
Overall, I'm moving closer and closer to never brushing a door again as I dial in the process closer and closer.
A pretty long-winded response, I know but, as I said, this is someting that was happening in my world just last week.
Mack
1) We had always used the HVLP for doors and trim but this job was a new construction where I knew the standards weren't going to be as high as we're used to so I decided to try the 440 with fine finish tip. It was much faster and I was very impressed with the finish we acheived with this setup . . . The first five or so doors we did, I was spraying back and forth in about two-foot sections, triggering the gun on and off. The gun was spitting. I actually only swithed because my fingers were getting tired from all the triggering but I decided to spray entire sides of doors without letting go of the trigger. The result was no spitting from the gun at all, hence a smoother finish.
2) The first batch of doors we did, I really flooded out both coats. Why not, right? Did the first coat, came back when they were dry, they looked great, so we sanded and did just as heavy of a second coat. WRONG. When we came back the next day to hang them and get started on the next batch, we noticed runs everwhere. What I took from this is the following: You can spray your first coat quite a bit heavier because the paint absorbs into the primer a little more, causing it to hold tighter and dry faster. When you come back on the second coat, now you're spraying over a hard semi-gloss finish. Even after a quick scuff-sand, still a pretty slick surface. The paint sits on top of this slick surface, taking longer to dry and finds the time to sag/run . . . As for touching them up, we hung them and sanded out the sags. I floetrolled (you've never heard it used as a verb before!) the hell out of the semi-gloss, picked my best sniper purdy and went to work. I didn't just touch up but painted whole panels or whole sides, you get the point. Can you see the difference between what is brushed and sprayed? I can but I can say for a fact that it won't be an issue with the builder. It looks very good in my opinion.
3) Second batch was sprayed first coat heavy, second coat much lighter. Now, when you're spraying intentionally lighter you have to be extremely careful not to miss (i.e. keep your overlapping spray pattern exactly the same. Think of yourself as a machine that makes the same exact movements every time). DO NOT miss because you will see these misses when the light hits the door at just the right/wrong angle.
Overall, I'm moving closer and closer to never brushing a door again as I dial in the process closer and closer.
A pretty long-winded response, I know but, as I said, this is someting that was happening in my world just last week.
Mack
Yes I did exactly as you said applying the second coat the same as the first giving the paint the time and surface for sagging. Makes prefect sense now. Also yes I had to learn the hard way- dont touch it until its completely dry! When applying the floetrol do you use a brush? Never really used it before.
Thanks again
Thanks again
Personally I hate floetrol for spraying (and in general) unless for a glaze additive to help with "open time". To me when spraying I want the paint to level but set fast, start drying. Floetrol slows that. Just like with oils I prefer Naptha for thinning versus mineral spirits as the naptha evaporates faster allowing to second coat sooner and less issues of sags and such.
Most newer waterbornes recommend adding just water if thinning is required and it has worked for me. Just my opinion.
Most newer waterbornes recommend adding just water if thinning is required and it has worked for me. Just my opinion.
Joined
·
551 Posts
You can use floetrol whether your brushing, spraying, or rolling but I use it most for brushing. It extends the dry time giving you 1) more open time to work with the paint which is especially useful brushing doors and 2) helps the paint level out better, decreasing the intensity of your brush marks.
Joined
·
14,407 Posts
It is kind of surprising that everyone out here uses Penetrol for oil based brush applications, but it seems that not everyone is using Fluotrol the same with latex. As far as I am concerned, Floutrol is to latex as Penetrol is to oil. Period.
Joined
·
57 Posts
I've been spraying for 27 years now, i use to let runs , and sags bother me....Now they don't, due to i found a trick to deal with it.....as you know at one time or another even the best spray people get runs or sags, not to much anymore due to years of practice....
So now the trick... let paint dry completely,....when dry, take a rag with lacquer thinner on it, and wipe that run or sag off...It's like washing your mistake away, and it is really....No sanding needed....Then before rehanging the doors spray that area over....
Just a quick trick for you, as you know, s**t happens, now you know the quickest, and easiest way to fix it
So now the trick... let paint dry completely,....when dry, take a rag with lacquer thinner on it, and wipe that run or sag off...It's like washing your mistake away, and it is really....No sanding needed....Then before rehanging the doors spray that area over....
Just a quick trick for you, as you know, s**t happens, now you know the quickest, and easiest way to fix it
It is like magic, the best route I found for taking care of the sags. The lacquer thinner worked really fast and when I resprayed you could never see the difference. Thanks for the advice! Hopefully I dont have to use this trick very often but if I start sagging atleast I dont have to start stressin' too.
Joined
·
57 Posts
APC ......You are welcome....
Joined
·
29 Posts
Do you spray both sides at the same time? if you lay on one side, let it dry some, turn over spray the other, you will get little sag or none..
we put nails in top bottom of doors and set them on sae horses or racks we make, do 10-60 doors at once.. sometimes we did both sides at once, sometimes one side at a time, doing one side is safer for sags, but once you turn over and spray unfinished side, the finished side can get a mist on it..
I always get stressed spraying doors both sides, cause the side facing down might get sags... I've gotten good, but through the many years still make mistakes... there is a thin margine of right, too littlle, and they look rotten, too much and sags..
Hope you get it worked out...
scotty
we put nails in top bottom of doors and set them on sae horses or racks we make, do 10-60 doors at once.. sometimes we did both sides at once, sometimes one side at a time, doing one side is safer for sags, but once you turn over and spray unfinished side, the finished side can get a mist on it..
I always get stressed spraying doors both sides, cause the side facing down might get sags... I've gotten good, but through the many years still make mistakes... there is a thin margine of right, too littlle, and they look rotten, too much and sags..
Hope you get it worked out...
scotty
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
