Professional Painting Contractors Forum banner

41 - 56 of 56 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
839 Posts
I happen to be on a job that has a ceiling that is obviously done in water based- clearly not primed to block tannins. I’ll post it here. Doesn’t look bad, I hadn’t even thought about before now.

yes, I was on lunch break. Man, you guys are distracting!
View attachment 111191
I have a painter friend who did his pine porch ceiling priming with coverstain. All the knots bled through, and bad. You would have thought it was wb. Either way, guess he needed to spot first.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,010 Posts
I have a painter friend who did his pine porch ceiling priming with coverstain. All the knots bled through, and bad. You would have thought it was wb. Either way, guess he needed to spot first.
Are you sure he used Coverstain? I haven't had problems with Coverstain and tannin bleed, that I know of, and I handle a lot of Cedar.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,010 Posts
No, I couldn’t...sprayed, maybe..
I thought the following was pretty cool aside from the cracking in the v-grooves (I did it a few years prior to taking the pic)...t&g pecky cypress brush finished in the discontinued high gloss Impervo. The project/home was also featured in an Elle Decor article “On the Waterfront” as well as in Architectural Digest. There was also tens of thousands of linear feet of painted t&g WRC paneling which we did in oil..
View attachment 111192
@ Redux,
You really need to "Showcase" some of the pictures, so we don't have to dig through a thread to find them.

(I'm not really sold on that particular stye, but technically it looks great.)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,117 Posts
Are you sure he used Coverstain? I haven't had problems with Coverstain and tannin bleed, that I know of, and I handle a lot of Cedar.
Coverstain & oil primers in general don’t block resin/terpenes which are the predominant extractives resulting in bleeding @ pine knots. Cedar on the other hand doesn’t contain resin ducts and is pretty much devoid of pitch & resin but contains high amounts of tannic acid where as pine doesn’t.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,010 Posts
Coverstain & oil primers in general don’t block resin/turpenes which are the predominant extractives resulting in bleeding @ pine knots. Cedar on the other hand doesn’t contain resin ducts and is pretty much devoid of pitch & resin but contains high amounts of tannic acid where as pine doesn’t.
So... what should the OP use?

---

Like you said in an earlier post, won't the wood show the unpainted gaps when it expands and contracts no matter what is used?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,117 Posts
So... what should the OP use?

---

Like you said in an earlier post, won't the wood show the unpainted gaps when it expands and contracts no matter what is used?
For knotty pine sprayed, I’d probably use something like Ilva’s White Interior WB Stain Blocking Sealer which is good for tannins, knots, and pine sap followed by White Aquatech Sealer and one coat WB white poly 2K topcoat..w/no guarantee.

As far as shrinking w/the possibility for being able to see the unprimed tongues, “ideally”, I’d probably calculate the equilibrium moisture content for the space based on the driest season, and check the wood’s moisture content and try and somehow acclimate it if needed, making certain it were equal or less than the EMC.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
839 Posts
Are you sure he used Coverstain? I haven't had problems with Coverstain and tannin bleed, that I know of, and I handle a lot of Cedar.
Nope. I wasn't there when he did it. It's just what he said (while looking up at it with rolled eyes). Maybe he was too embarrassed to say otherwise? IDK.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #48 (Edited)
Wow those pictures are fantastic. I had been searching for example pictures that I could show them so they understand what I mean by knots showing up and these are much better examples than what I was able to find. Thank you for those. They definitely want the place to look farm house (it is in a horse barn) and they had discussed white washing it (pickeled) but didnt settle on it.

Redux, you are obviously the man when it comes to painting interior wood. That siding with the holes in it is definitely unique. Do you ever spray shiplap or all brushed? The issues you talk about with the moisture is definitely a concern. All of the wood was stored for a month or so in the hayloft in the barn so it could acclimate but I know how much this stuff moves depending on humidity. I am not worried about the walls because those had 16" oc studs but the ceiling is on 24" oc studs. The RH in the room has been about 40% so relatively dry.

I never really thought about it but I could use an HVLP to spray BIN ? Ive used it many times for cabinets, doors and trim just never this kind of square footage. Its got to be faster than brushing it out?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,117 Posts
Wow those pictures are fantastic. I had been searching for example pictures that I could show them so they understand what I mean by knots showing up and these are much better examples than what I was able to find. Thank you for those. They definitely want the place to look farm house (it is in a horse barn) and they had discussed white washing it (pickeled) but didnt settle on it.

Redux, you are obviously the man when it comes to painting interior wood. That siding with the holes in it is definitely unique. Do you ever spray shiplap or all brushed? The issues you talk about with the moisture is definitely a concern. All of the wood was stored for a month or so in the hayloft in the barn so it could acclimate but I know how much this stuff moves depending on humidity. I am not worried about the walls because those had 16" oc studs but the ceiling is on 24" oc studs. The RH in the room has been about 40% so relatively dry.

I never really thought about it but I could use an HVLP to spray BIN ? Ive used it many times for cabinets, doors and trim just never this kind of square footage. Its got to be faster than brushing it out?
I’ve always brushed it due to local ordinances not permitting atomized solvent borne coatings to be applied outside of a permitted spray booth, and I prefer working with oil paint. I primarily prime with Moore’s 024 and spot up knots and resin pockets with a couple of coats of BIN, yet they’ll eventually bleed.

I personally wouldn’t feel comfortable shooting that much BIN in an enclosed area due to the potential for a flash fire. I’ve shared accounts here @ PT of 2 separate flash fires involving people I know.

Edit: One problem I’ve encountered with the oil primer on t&g material is it has a tendency to squeeze out of the joints long after it’s been coated “if” the boards swell.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #50
I’ve always brushed it due to local ordinances not permitting atomized solvent borne coatings to be applied outside of a permitted spray booth, and I prefer working with oil paint. I primarily prime with Moore’s 024 and spot up knots and resin pockets with a couple of coats of BIN, yet they’ll eventually bleed.

I personally wouldn’t feel comfortable shooting that much BIN in an enclosed area due to the potential for a flash fire. I’ve shared accounts here @ PT of 2 separate flash fires involving people I know.

Edit: One problem I’ve encountered with the oil primer on t&g material is it has a tendency to squeeze out of the joints long after it’s been coated “if” the boards swell.
Ya Im not too thrilled about the idea either. They keep saying the want the see the character of the wood and they want a low sheen finish. so I am going to throw together a few samples for them. Might white wash a sample and see if they like it. That way I could avoid BIN all together.

If one were to try and white wash a large ceiling, would a flat BM ceiling paint work well when diluted? I would think you would have enough time to rag it off.

Are the semi transparent, white pigmented stains they sell now any better for a white wash? Only ever used darker ones on decks
 

·
Super Moderator
Journeyman Painting Contractor
Joined
·
2,373 Posts
Ya Im not too thrilled about the idea either. They keep saying the want the see the character of the wood and they want a low sheen finish. so I am going to throw together a few samples for them. Might white wash a sample and see if they like it. That way I could avoid BIN all together.

If one were to try and white wash a large ceiling, would a flat BM ceiling paint work well when diluted? I would think you would have enough time to rag it off.

Are the semi transparent, white pigmented stains they sell now any better for a white wash? Only ever used darker ones on decks
The waterbased stains today are fantastic. Could probably just brush, or spray and back brush a coat of white arborcoat semi-transparent latex stain. Then a coat of clear for protection if wanted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
839 Posts
Ya Im not too thrilled about the idea either. They keep saying the want the see the character of the wood and they want a low sheen finish. so I am going to throw together a few samples for them. Might white wash a sample and see if they like it. That way I could avoid BIN all together.

If one were to try and white wash a large ceiling, would a flat BM ceiling paint work well when diluted? I would think you would have enough time to rag it off.

Are the semi transparent, white pigmented stains they sell now any better for a white wash? Only ever used darker ones on decks
I've done paint dilutions plenty. Most typically I dilute whatever trim paint I'm in (so it's the same color), make some different concentration mixes and samples for the HO to choose degree of transparency. I also don't rag it off as I just get the dilution to where it needs to be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,845 Posts
Ya Im not too thrilled about the idea either. They keep saying the want the see the character of the wood and they want a low sheen finish. so I am going to throw together a few samples for them. Might white wash a sample and see if they like it. That way I could avoid BIN all together.

If one were to try and white wash a large ceiling, would a flat BM ceiling paint work well when diluted? I would think you would have enough time to rag it off.

Are the semi transparent, white pigmented stains they sell now any better for a white wash? Only ever used darker ones on decks
What you get out of a 'stain' opposed to diluting latex paint is less grain raising and more consistent even color.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #55
I managed to get the air moving through the place and got the BIN sprayed out. The color of just the bin actually looked quite good, very farm housey feel. I can see how a heavy whitewashed look could be appealing. Top coat monday, might only put one on to keep as much character as possible.
 
41 - 56 of 56 Posts
Top