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5K views 37 replies 12 participants last post by  propainterJ 
#1 ·
i knew i was pushing it with incoming weather, so i tried to take every precaution possible. here’s an overview

-primed with peel stop triple thick
  • noticed tannin bleed (paint had flaked badly, lots of raw spots)
  • primed over the peel stop with dunn edwards block it
  • applied 2 full coats kelly moore acryshield low sheen (rated to 35).
  • used digital laser thermometer and ensured temps were 55 or above of both paint and surface.
  • dried and looked great
2 days later had rain and snow mix, temps dipping into high 20s. humidity 100 percent.

the picture with the drops laid out is what it looked like a day after. the rest are current. is this surfactant leaching? could this have been prevented? what’s the best course of action for fixing? hopefully the pics go through
 

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#2 · (Edited)
I hate to say it but while the temps for outside work may have been ok, the rain/snow 2 days later and humidity at 100% was detrimental to your work. Yes, the temperatures would have been ok but the amount of time needed for the paint to "cure" was not enough. This is the reason why I no longer do outside work. If you re-do this paint in the spring (when there's no rain), you'll get a much better job. I don't think it's surfactant that's leaching.
 
#11 ·
  • used digital laser thermometer and ensured temps were 55 or above of both paint and surface.
  • dried and looked great
2 days later had rain and snow mix, temps dipping into high 20s. humidity 100 percent.
So if you had rain and snow two days later, I'm quite sure that at night and in the mornings you had lots of moisture in the air.
Snow just doesn't start falling without weather getting "ready" for such conditions. There is a build up to the point that snow arrives.
Even if it was nice and dry during the day time when you were painting, evenings and mornings messed things up for you.
Paint dried on the surface but not under the surface, paint was in a thermal shock so to say.
 
#12 ·
So if you had rain and snow two days later, I'm quite sure that at night and in the mornings you had lots of moisture in the air.
Snow just doesn't start falling without weather getting "ready" for such conditions. There is a build up to the point that snow arrives.
Even if it was nice and dry during the day time when you were painting, evenings and mornings messed things up for you.
Paint dried on the surface but not under the surface, paint was in a thermal shock so to say.
Clearly you don't live in the mountains lol
 
#13 ·
i’ve been watching the forecast. it was nice with lows in the high 30s low 40s. rain was forecast with low of 35 for one day then it was supposed to warm up again into 50s and 60s. the morning it was supposed to rain, forecast changed to snow and lows dropped and next week forecast for rain/snow. i knew i was taking a risk but the winters have been pretty mild the last few years and i figured if i had a little leaching i’d just rinse it off or reshoot. i didn’t expect things to go this bad, but i knew it was possible. in the eastern sierras if you don’t like the forecast, just wait 15 minutes and it will change. i accept full responsibility for the problem. i warned the owner. i took every precaution i could besides telling him to wait until spring. and i’m going to fix it. i just don’t want to assume it’s surfactant and find out it’s something else that bleeds through a fresh coat.
 
#15 ·
looks exactly like surfactant leaching. Used to have customers call all the time this time of year. wipe it all, worst case scenario repaint come spring.

One guy was painting in snow storm and suprised the dark gray leached just like yours.

Another fella oil primed at 10k feet and tried to use mooreguard over it a week later when it warmed up. Well the primer hadn't dried and major solvent entrapment was causing the finish to crawl away from its self. My BM rep had a video that was crazy. HO was adamant it was bad product until we made a sample board inside and had no issue at all.
 
#16 ·
Why so many replies claiming the paint job is ruined or compromised? We don't know that yet. Surfactant leaching doesn't necessarily compromise a coating. He hasn't even tried to remove any of the surfactant.

OP, take the suggestion by @cocomonkeynuts to try and wipe down a few boards with a damp microfiber cloth. I'd actually hose it all down first, then rag the spots still visible. Manually wiping the entire exterior would be tedious, especially since you'll need to change & clean rags often.

There's still a chance all of it can be removed, but I'd get on it ASAP. Keep us posted.
 
#20 ·
Why so many replies claiming the paint job is ruined or compromised? We don't know that yet. Surfactant leaching doesn't necessarily compromise a coating. He hasn't even tried to remove any of the surfactant.

OP, take the suggestion by @cocomonkeynuts to try and wipe down a few boards with a damp microfiber cloth. I'd actually hose it all down first, then rag the spots still visible. Manually wiping the entire exterior would be tedious, especially since you'll need to change & clean rags often.

There's still a chance all of it can be removed, but I'd get on it ASAP. Keep us posted.
If you zoom in on the first pic, in between the slats of the siding you'll see paint accumulation from being pushed off the big faces and into the little grooves. IMHO, that buildup in the little slats is indicative of either back-rolling or back-brushing. It certainly isn't a natural occurrence when spraying.
yes i back roll everything
 
#18 ·
If you zoom in on the first pic, in between the slats of the siding you'll see paint accumulation from being pushed off the big faces and into the little grooves. IMHO, that buildup in the little slats is indicative of either back-rolling or back-brushing. It certainly isn't a natural occurrence when spraying.
 
#21 ·
update:
first - i back rolled on the first coat with a huge nap roller, i back rolled the second coat as well except under the porch where i sprayed the second coat without backrolling. i used 1.5”nap roller and pushed hard before laying it off with all downstrokes.

wiped a panel yesterday, went back today and that panel was 80 percent perfect.

used a garden hose to gently rinse the siding and went back several hours later and took attached pics. i noticed suds indicative of surfactant leaching while washing and saw drastic improvement. sales rep recommended wiping over washing for any future cleanings to protect integrity of coating. i have youtube videos available of everything if anyone is interested. i appreciate all of your input, it all is very helpful. i’m losing money on this one, but i’m investing in educating myself in the process. I am a humble 1 man operation in a small town where reputation is everything.
 

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#24 ·
  • primed over the peel stop with dunn edwards block it
  • applied 2 full coats kelly moore acryshield low sheen (rated to 35).
OK, let's pick your first post apart.
Not familiar with the Dunn Edwards "Block It", but from their data sheet it looks like a quality product.
So no fault here using some cheep ass primer. At least going by the data sheet.

DATA SHEET:

Kelly Moore Acryshield low sheen, sounds like a solid quality product too.
(At least you didn't used the misleadingly labeled "SW Super Paint", that there is nothing super about it, lol)

DATA SHEET:

Under the Dunn Edwards "Block It" there are two products listed as "triple thick primer", one of them is specifically designated as:
PEEL STOP® TRIPLE THICK SPRAY.

pdf here:

The other is listed as:
PEEL STOP® TRIPLE THICK PRIMER.

pdf here:

And if you carefully read both data sheets, you will notice few differences between them.
Besides the links to their pdf's, I will post screen shots of both of them, so it will be easier for the paint nerds to see it if there might be some clue there.
I have an idea, but what do I know, I'm just a sophomoric troll.
Actually very interesting differences there.

Would be interesting to know which product OP actually used.

Even the dry and the re-coating times are very short and are very tempting to follow, it might be that the real life conditions,
(especially of building up of moisture at night and mornings) before the snow fall messed everyting up.
Actually, not maybe, but for sure.
Unless, whatever the original coat was on that siding , it contributed in some weird way to the whole mess.
But being me, I would of course blame God, and the weather, Lol


Font Parallel Number Pattern Rectangle


Font Parallel Rectangle Number Screenshot
 
#32 ·
Under the Dunn Edwards "Block It" there are two products listed as "triple thick primer", one of them is specifically designated as:
PEEL STOP® TRIPLE THICK SPRAY.

pdf here:

The other is listed as:
PEEL STOP® TRIPLE THICK PRIMER.

pdf here:
The former is an aerosol spray can. The latter is the regular brush-on primer. Rustoleum likes to use completely different formulas in their aerosol cans (possibly out of necessity). For example, 1-2-3 aerosol cans are a (oil-based) modified alkyd, while the brush on is a (water-based) styrenated acrylic. My guess is this is they do this so they get better atomization out of the aerosol cans.
 
#25 ·
for whoever asked what primer i’m using here you go. i usually use kel bond ultra for flaking paint but this peel stop triple thick i came across by mistake. meant to order xim peel bond on the last house and got this ($50/gal) and i really liked it so i stuck with it.
 

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#26 ·
for whoever asked what primer i’m using here you go.
Lol, James, you're funny person the way you addressed my question as to what primer you used.
Not like my post was not visible, and my name was not displayed.
Anyhow, my name is Don, James.
I'm just trying to help you, man.

meant to order xim peel bond on the last house and got this ($50/gal) and i really liked it so i stuck with it.
Well, make sure that you know your products, so they don't backfire on you few years from now.
At this point I'm not going to invest any more of my time trying to help you finding out more info of the chemical composition of the product that you used,
(the Zinnser Peel Stop Triple Thick Primer), but Peel Bond is a different product than few other similar products, like for example the famous "Mad Dog".
I don't know if your Zinnser is also an elastomeric or not, but if it is, then few-several years from now there might be some areas of the siding (that you double primed
with Zinnser and the oil hybrid primer) will rot if moisture will get trapped behind them.

Anyhow, James, next time you will decide to respond to me, please don't be shy and use my name, no need to beat around the bushes, man. Lol
Don

James,
Here is my last helpful info for you, so you get educated on differences between similar but chemically very different products.

Rectangle Font Circle Parallel Water
 
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#31 ·
Sorry Joe, but I'm not clicking on your link, (afraid to get a virus, the computer virus I mean),
tho I have a question for you Joe, how cheap is the Whiskey that you're gobbling it now?
Don, the link was just Youtube. But it wasn't serious. Just a joke. I'm as tall as the top of my head when measured from the bottom of my feet.

You have useful things to say about painting. But just take a deep breath once in a while. Get over whatever anxieties and defensive feelings you have about life and painting. And just put your useful comments out there. While toning down the insecure mania. You're ok, man. Just repeat that to yourself.

And if you have anxieties about people's heights. Don't worry. You're not too tall or too short. You're just you. As tall and/or as short as you are. And it's ok.

Peace out.
 
#35 ·
i knew i was pushing it with incoming weather, so i tried to take every precaution possible. here’s an overview

-primed with peel stop triple thick
  • noticed tannin bleed (paint had flaked badly, lots of raw spots)
  • primed over the peel stop with dunn edwards block it
  • applied 2 full coats kelly moore acryshield low sheen (rated to 35).
  • used digital laser thermometer and ensured temps were 55 or above of both paint and surface.
  • dried and looked great
2 days later had rain and snow mix, temps dipping into high 20s. humidity 100 percent.

the picture with the drops laid out is what it looked like a day after. the rest are current. is this surfactant leaching? could this have been prevented? what’s the best course of action for fixing? hopefully the pics go through
 
#37 ·
Tis the season for Surfactant Leach. Tinted systems in dark colors are the most vulnerable especially the glycol based colorants. Dewpoint and surface temp in acrylic systems minimize soaps from evaporating normally out of the film and manifest themselves back on the surface. I have not found applying more paint as a solution but a rinse with clean water and maybe a soft brush depending on the severity of the leach AFTER the film is fully cured removes the soap. Many times Mother Nature will rectify the problem on its own.
 
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