Professional Painting Contractors Forum banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Journeyman Painting Contractor
Joined
·
2,159 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So weird. This is the first time this has happened to me. Had a can of BIN Shellac tinted with 2 ounces black to grey it off. I then attempted to strain the shellac through a 1 gal. mesh strainer. The strainer filled up like a balloon and would not strain. Had to force it through with my hands making a real mess. i thought, what the heck!
Loaded up my hvlp and it sprayed an unexpected beautiful speckled design all over my door.
Took the can back to the paint shop and asked them to throw it back on the shaker for 10 mins. Then back to the shop and tried again. Same thing! WTF. What a waste of a Saturday. Switched over to some Stix as an immediate remedy.
Chaulking it up to a bad Can of Shellac? Wrong Tint used? Thoughts? See Pics..
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,038 Posts
Although BIN’s tech sheet does state that it can be tinted with universal colorants, I had the same problem. with Tints All lamp black. I had to break it up in DNA first before incorporating it into the BIN.
 

·
Super Moderator
Journeyman Painting Contractor
Joined
·
2,159 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Although BIN’s tech sheet does state that it can be tinted with universal colorants, I had the same problem. with Tints All lamp black. I had to break it up in DNA first before incorporating it into the BIN.
Doh! For some reason I actually believe you. :unsure:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,038 Posts
Doh! For some reason I actually believe you. :unsure:
Yeah...I was refinishing my bedroom set and used BIN as a ground coat for a brown wax glaze/patina. I needed to umber out the ground a bit and used Tints-All raw umber, not the lamp black mentioned. The universal colorants didn’t intermix with the BIN no matter how well agitated it was, even using a power mixer attached to a drill. I used a cone strainer and much of the colorant wouldn’t filter through. When shooting it, there were hundreds of umber speckles. It didn’t even intermix with the DNA too well but I was able to get a speckle free dry film. I had to use a mortar and pestle to to break up the pigments in the DNA and further added some BIN to the pestle and ground that in before adding it to the BIN, constantly having to keep it agitated.

I had the same thing happen with universal colorants when tweaking a color in a pre-tinted lacquer for a guitar (speckle hell too), as well as when using universal colorants to tone shellac for touching up some chips on antique furnishings. I was told by a paint mixologist that certain pigments in universal colorants don’t disperse & intermix too well in lacquers & shellac.

Edit: After looking at my headboard, I take it back about it being speckle free...Still quite a few large speckles in the finish..(When I first started shooting the tinted BIN before having to stop before getting too far into it, it looked just as bad as yours.)

110845
 

·
Super Moderator
Journeyman Painting Contractor
Joined
·
2,159 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Yeah...I was refinishing my bedroom set and used BIN as a ground coat for a brown wax glaze/patina. I needed to umber out the ground a bit and used Tints-All raw umber, not the lamp black mentioned. The universal colorants didn’t intermix with the BIN no matter how well agitated it was, even using a power mixer attached to a drill. I used a cone strainer and much of the colorant wouldn’t filter through. When shooting it, there were hundreds of umber speckles. It didn’t even intermix with the DNA too well but I was able to get a speckle free dry film. I had to use a mortar and pestle to to break up the pigments in the DNA and further added some BIN to the pestle and ground that in before adding it to the BIN, constantly having to keep it agitated.

I had the same thing happen with universal colorants when tweaking a color in a pre-tinted lacquer for a guitar (speckle hell too), as well as when using universal colorants to tone shellac for touching up some chips on antique furnishings. I was told by a paint mixologist that certain pigments in universal colorants don’t disperse & intermix too well in lacquers & shellac.

Edit: After looking at my headboard, I take it back about it being speckle free...Still quite a few large speckles in the finish..(When I first started shooting the tinted BIN before having to stop before getting too far into it, it looked just as bad as yours.)

View attachment 110845
So weird. Its almost as though the tint is attaching itself to the shellac flakes or something..?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,038 Posts
So weird. Its almost as though the tint is attaching itself to the shellac flakes or something..?
I have no clue what’s up with it...I pretty much have -zero- knowledge about colorants. Maybe the surfactants in the universal colorants form weak bonds with the alcohol causing it to coagulate?? My material however did pass through a strainer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,638 Posts
Universal colorants should never be used in lacquer. Use solvent dyes or industrial 844. Though I havn't see any issue tinting BIN with universal you can tint shellac with 844 as well and it will more readily mix.
 

·
Super Moderator
Journeyman Painting Contractor
Joined
·
2,159 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Universal colorants should never be used in lacquer. Use solvent dyes or industrial 844. Though I havn't see any issue tinting BIN with universal you can tint shellac with 844 as well and it will more readily mix.
Whats 844? Schooling me here again coco..
 

·
Super Moderator
Journeyman Painting Contractor
Joined
·
2,159 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I have no clue what’s up with it...I pretty much have -zero- knowledge about colorants. Maybe the surfactants in the universal colorants form weak bonds with the alcohol causing it to coagulate?? My material however did pass through a strainer.
Although I wouldn't be surprised if the Can was past its due date. I couldn't actually find an expiry date anywhere. The whole town has been out of Shellac, so had to go to a sleepy hardware store to find some.. Who knows how long it was on the shelf.. :rolleyes:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,038 Posts
Universal colorants should never be used in lacquer. Use solvent dyes or industrial 844. Though I havn't see any issue tinting BIN with universal you can tint shellac with 844 as well and it will more readily mix.
I was using a colorant system for solvent borne finishes (now discontinued) which I’m pretty certain was a pre Chroma-Chem 844 relabel. Although not having tried it in shellac, I’m pretty certain the PDS stated that it wasn’t compatible with alcohol or spirit varnishes.

Thoughts??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,638 Posts
I was using a colorant system for solvent borne finishes (now discontinued) which I’m pretty certain was a pre Chroma-Chem 844 relabel. Although not having tried it in shellac, I’m pretty certain the PDS stated that it wasn’t compatible with alcohol or spirit varnishes.

Thoughts??
Whats 844? Schooling me here again coco..
844 are acetate based and the industry standard for solvent urethanes, epoxies, conversion varnish, lacquer... Not sure what you used previously however 844 can be used in alcohol soluble dispersions including shellac.

If your store can tint solvent epoxy they will have 844.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,038 Posts
844 are acetate based and the industry standard for solvent urethanes, epoxies, conversion varnish, lacquer... Not sure what you used previously however 844 can be used in alcohol soluble dispersions including shellac.

If your store can tint solvent epoxy they will have 844.
I must have gotten Mohawk’s M844 acetate colorants confused with their UCs...Mohawk’s solvent/non-aqueous UCs arent compatible w/shellac...I thought the UCs were an 844 relabel but aren’t.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
So weird. This is the first time this has happened to me. Had a can of BIN Shellac tinted with 2 ounces black to grey it off. I then attempted to strain the shellac through a 1 gal. mesh strainer. The strainer filled up like a balloon and would not strain. Had to force it through with my hands making a real mess. i thought, what the heck!
Loaded up my hvlp and it sprayed an unexpected beautiful speckled design all over my door.
Took the can back to the paint shop and asked them to throw it back on the shaker for 10 mins. Then back to the shop and tried again. Same thing! WTF. What a waste of a Saturday. Switched over to some Stix as an immediate remedy.
Chaulking it up to a bad Can of Shellac? Wrong Tint used? Thoughts? See Pics..
I had the same issue a while back. My store won't tint it anymore. I know I have had it tinted in the past with no issues. Not sure what changed but the product was almost like a gel. The black didn't disperse and left a bumpy feel when sprayed. The finish looked like multi-spec. When sanding it, we figured out the bumps where chunks of black tint. Maybe my store used the wrong tint, or they changed their tint and it is not compatible now. Regardless, they won't tint it.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top