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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone. Let me start off by saying that this is my first paint talk post.

Next week I'm going to be doing a kitchen face lift, painting some lacquered cabinets, and re-tiling in an occupied home. I live in California, so oils and lacquered paints are sadly out. I will be tenting off the kitchen and priming with Zinsser BIN, applied with an airless 311 tip. I can't stand painting doors or cabinets in acrylics (with the possible exception of Vista's Carefree line) because the elasticity makes the doors stick slightly to the frames. I was prepaired to do the job with waterborne alkyd and just deal with the downtime, but then i noticed that the shellac could be tinted, and saw that the clear shellac could receive up to 6oz of universal colorant.

So my question is, would anyone back up tinting clear shellac for the finish coat, based on experience?

I have tried to research the point before asking you guys, but I'm not finding a definitive answer. Thank you for your time and advice in advance.
 

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1.) Shellac as a top coat = no bueno period.

2.) For cabinets it's even worse, it's not hard enough. California will allow lacquers and certain other chemicals if they meet the correct threshold. They've even developed waterborn lacquers etc to deal with this type of issue. Even a pre-cat urethane is waterborne, which is fairly tough

3.) Strip/sand over OR prime and paint over them.

Overall: I wouldn't use Shellac on cabinets in any manor. Not strong enough to hold up as a top coat and too brittle with all the slamming that could happen as even an undercoat.

Good luck with you project though.
 

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Shellac is one of the oldest finishes, and has held up on furniture pieces for decades or even 100+ years. That being said, a kitchen can get a lot of abuse, and if someone is washing their cabinets with Windex which contains ammonia that could be a problem. Priming with BIN is great, and I think if you were just doing some misc trim you could tint the bin to a finish color. However, look into Ppg breakthrough or BM insl-x cabinet coat in addition to the advance you were looking into.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I believe the shellac/oil thing is about solvents. The biggest problem with VOCs for BIN is the vaporized alcohol, which dissipates well and the solvent is bio-degradable (its basically vodka). Mineral spirits are another ball game, and apart from the vaporized alcohol i believe that shellac has very low VOCs, though I could be wrong.

As far as the metal thing goes it makes sense, if you try to tell painters that they have to use a water base to coat metal many would go nuts, simply because of rust paranoia. So yeah, some of the guys I know still oil doors, they just buy the quaurts of "metal only" syn lustro.
 

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I believe the shellac/oil thing is about solvents. The biggest problem with VOCs for BIN is the vaporized alcohol, which dissipates well and the solvent is bio-degradable (its basically vodka). Mineral spirits are another ball game, and apart from the vaporized alcohol i believe that shellac has very low VOCs, though I could be wrong.

As far as the metal thing goes it makes sense, if you try to tell painters that they have to use a water base to coat metal many would go nuts, simply because of rust paranoia. So yeah, some of the guys I know still oil doors, they just buy the quaurts of "metal only" syn lustro.


I think the metal issue has to do with "Industrial" versus "Architectural" coating designation. IIRC, there's a VOC exemption (or higher limits) for industrial coatings. That's how a number of SW and BM products have been relabeled.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
That makes sense.

I went ahead and did a waterborne alkyd finish, worked well. I used BIN as an undercoat and was very impressed. 3 coats of primer, but they went on fast and needed almost no dry time. When we sanded them down before putting on the waterborne we were all sad that we wouldn't be using the shellac for finish, it was so hard and smooth.

The customer is ecstatic, but I think I will try the tinted shellac finish sometime and let you guys know how it turns out, just not until I have a job that isn't so touchy.

Thanks guys.
 

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That makes sense.

I went ahead and did a waterborne alkyd finish, worked well. I used BIN as an undercoat and was very impressed. 3 coats of primer, but they went on fast and needed almost no dry time. When we sanded them down before putting on the waterborne we were all sad that we wouldn't be using the shellac for finish, it was so hard and smooth.

The customer is ecstatic, but I think I will try the tinted shellac finish sometime and let you guys know how it turns out, just not until I have a job that isn't so touchy.

Thanks guys.
try the tinted waterborne conversion varnish. toughest finish around. it dries as fast as BIN too.
 

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I just painted some new cabinets with Insl-X (now Benjamin Moore) cabinet coat . . . loved the finish with a 214 FF tip. It's a waterborne urethane. I also love the BM Advance for flow, leveling, and hardness. It can be a bit runny, but it's a nice paint.

I'm also frankly mystified that you can use B-I-N but not traditional Alkyds. Looking at the TDS, B-I-N seems to have 550 g/L VOCs. It does say that it dries to a non-toxic, hypoallergenic finish, so maybe it just gasses out really, really, quickly?
 

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Always_Learning said:
I went ahead and did a waterborne alkyd finish, worked well. I used BIN as an undercoat and was very impressed. 3 coats of primer, but they went on fast and needed almost no dry time. When we sanded them down before putting on the waterborne we were all sad that we wouldn't be using the shellac for finish, it was so hard and smooth.
What waterbourne alkyd did you use? Did you go back after cure and check the adhesion, mainly scratch resistance?

You shouldn't be able to scratch the finish with your nail or dig your nail in and chip it off.
 

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I'm also frankly mystified that you can use B-I-N but not traditional Alkyds. Looking at the TDS, B-I-N seems to have 550 g/L VOCs. It does say that it dries to a non-toxic, hypoallergenic finish, so maybe it just gasses out really, really, quickly?[/QUOTE]

There are VOCs and then there are VOCs....it is a loaded term, with many variables. The VOCs in BIN are not nearly as bad as those in alkyd coatings.
 

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I'm also frankly mystified that you can use B-I-N but not traditional Alkyds. Looking at the TDS, B-I-N seems to have 550 g/L VOCs. It does say that it dries to a non-toxic, hypoallergenic finish, so maybe it just gasses out really, really, quickly?
There are VOCs and then there are VOCs....it is a loaded term, with many variables. The VOCs in BIN are not nearly as bad as those in alkyd coatings.[/QUOTE]

The VOCs in BIN may be just as "bad" as the others, but the folks marketing Low- or Zero-VOC are conveniently ignoring one important point: the whole VOC issue is about smog, and only smog. The reason they became regulated in the first place is because of their contribution to photochemical smog in southern California. It all started with the SCAQMD and slowly spread to other populated areas.

Any connection between VOCs and painter/occupant health is only coincidental. There are some zero-VOC solvents that are particularly deadly, something that some painters found out the hard way with some early zero-VOC coatings.
 
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