[Wickedgood!]

I see alot of new guys come on here saying, "hey, new to this and looking to start a painting business." I believe I posted somthing very similar once. I have been trying to get something going for a while now. Just parttime, no high volume or anything. Just something to do on my days off and make some extra money. But, just because I'm keeping it small doesn't mean that I'm not taking it seriously.. I've been trying! Got a "contractors acccout" all set up with SW, got me a little insurance policy, my truck is a piece of poop as it is so that's a work truck, ladders, and everything else.. Yes including experience, been paint for other people for a while now.. Anyway, been trying the "word of mouth" thing and well, I can't seem to get that going at all.. Posted on Craigslist.com and just had my first call from a guy that needed a rental property painted. Went to look at it, priced it out, went with the time and materials approach at $17 and hour.. He said that it sounded great and that I can start on Tuesday. He called me Monday night and said that he found someone cheaper and he is going with them.. I'm trying to stay away from having to pay for advertisement.. Is there something that I'm missing here?!!

So, what I'm getting at here for all the new guys out there... THIS ISN'T AS EASY AS YOU MIGHT THINK!!! If this was my only sorce of income, the wife and I would be out on the street.. Maybe it's me maybe I don't have the right smile or something. I'm not giving up!!

To all the guys that run your own business.....:notworthy:

Best of luck!

 

[tsunamicontract]

huh must have missed the link to "start your own painting business, its easy and make $330 a day" at the top of the page . . .

 

[Libertine]

If you live in an area where the homes are close together, you might try buying 100 packs of 4x6 note cards at an Office Depot for $2, making them into a door flyer with a large hole punch and passing them out.

 

[Wickedgood!]

If that's Lee Caruso's program.... bought that too...

 

[Brian]

Went to look at it, priced it out, went with the time and materials approach at $17 and hour.... I'm trying to stay away from having to pay for advertisement.. Is there something that I'm missing here?!!

At the risk of sounding like a smart donkey, the first 2 sentences above are a lot of the answer to your question.

If you are charging only $17 an hour, you really can't afford advertising. And if you can't afford advertising, you are going to get the cheap bozo's you just described.

What you are missing is a marketing plan to generate leads, an estimating process to get away from T&M, and a sales process to get a better price.

Brian Phillips

 

[tsunamicontract]

yah you really want to be bringing home at least $17 an hour, so probably billing at least 35. I didn't comment on that because I wasn't sure if OP was being sarcastic or cynical or not.

 

[MAK-Deco]

At the risk of sounding like a smart donkey, the first 2 sentences above are a lot of the answer to your question.

If you are charging only $17 an hour, you really can't afford advertising. And if you can't afford advertising, you are going to get the cheap bozo's you just described.

What you are missing is a marketing plan to generate leads, an estimating process to get away from T&M, and a sales process to get a better price.

Brian Phillips

Brian you forgot to mention that 17$ an hr is way to low for any business to stay in biz.... Forget advertising your not making any money to buy anything! I was billing more then that in 1992 when I stated out in my 20's (age not dollars)

 

[DeanV]

Hey, if I billed my self out at 17/hr as a one man crew, I would be rolling in the cash. I would be taking home right around $2-3.00/hr!!! To bad the department of labor does not crack down on self-employed people who do not pay themselves minimum wage.......

 

[daArch]

Brian you forgot to mention that 17$ an hr is way to low for any business to stay in biz.... Forget advertising your not making any money to buy anything! I was billing more then that in 1992 when I stated out in my 20's (age not dollars)

I can remember driving home from a job in about 1990 figuring out that I had just made $22.00 an hour. I thought I had died and gone to slug heaven.

I now understand why I didn't have two nickles to rub together.

Yesterday I was driving home and figured the job yielded ONLY $67/hour. I now have those two nickels, but they ain't worth a penny.

 

[ewingpainting.net]

I haven't made 17 an hr, since the 90s. By just offering the home owner a T&M charge makes some one appear unprepared and unprofessional. If I told my costumer's I would charge them T&M, they would probably give me a blank stair and cancel on me as well. A client wants to know the bottom line, that it is what is this going to cost me? and if they contract with you, how professional are you? You must remember one thing when biding on a job. If you are more professional and knowledgeable than the guy that just left, you have a better shot at getting the job and getting their trust.

 

[tsunamicontract]

I haven't made 17 an hr, since the 90s. By just offering the home owner a T&M charge makes some one appear unprepared and unprofessional. If I told my costumer's I would charge them T&M, they would probably give me a blank stair and cancel on me as well. A client wants to know the bottom line, that it is what is this going to cost me? and if they contract with you, how professional are you? You must remember one thing when biding on a job. If you are more professional and knowledgeable than the guy that just left, you have a better shot at getting the job and getting their trust.

he speaks the truth. I only do t/m on the jobs I am not sure how to bid accurately, which makes me think I maybe shouldn't be taking them. I do provide the customer with an estimate of the total cost (not a proposal mind you) when I do it t/m, been trying to shy away from that as much as possible.

 

[fungku]

Well, I'm not starting out a paint business but I need to do a fair bit of painting when I build cabinets or install trim and I'll change wall colours of the HO want me to. However, I can sympathise and feel your pain.

I actually am getting a flood of business right now in the past 2 weeks that I'm actually turning down jobs, but it wasn't like this up until then, and I don't know what it will be like 4-5 weeks from now either, but if you put yourself out there at $17 and are advertising on craig's list you are asking to be outbid by some bindur who will do it for $10/hr with the guys from india who work for free so they can live in his basement.

the people who are looking for guys on craig's list aren't looking for quality, they're looking for the cheapest guy they can find, no matter the end result

 

[bikerboy]

the people who are looking for guys on craig's list aren't looking for quality, they're looking for the cheapest guy they can find, no matter the end result

From my perspective, Craigslist works well. Believe that part of it is how one presents his business there. Our ad has correct spelling, a link to our website and a link to the Maryland Home Improvement Commission so you can check to see if the businesses have a license.

Now, in six months we got two jobs (out of three), but they both paid well. Part of what you are trying to do is get a foot in the door and sell yourself. Think if we made an effort to list every other day and keep ourselves at the top, there would be more work.

 

[Mopaint]

I urge you. If you want to be a success get out of that hourly rate frame of mind. Start bidding jobs on a contract price. If you say for instance think a bedroom will take 8 hours bid it at 250 plus material. Most people will feel more comfortable with that than an open ended Tand M arrangement. If you work by the hour it's a safe way to go but the potential for the occasional home run is nil. You need to make more than a wage at any figure. Even 25 or 30 is too low if you want to buy a truck or a spray rig where is the money going to come from? The exception would be a super custom job with a lot of unknowns like a squirrely decorator or architect. But you know about what it takes to paint a room or an exterior so stop leaving money on the table. You are setting yourself up for failure and lowballing us established contractors. I wish you well.

 

[johnthepainter]

a gc just asked me what my hourly rate is

i told him $60 per hour

he said he only bills out his guys for $30

i pointed around the laundry room we were standing in, and asked him "how long do you think it would take me to paint this room?"

he said "about one hour"

i said "i would charge you about $200 to one coat this room"

throw those hourly rates out the window,,,,,,,,,,you loose at $60, let alone $17

i typically dont give an hourly rate,,,,,,,just give them the bottom line, and make some real money

 

[Mopaint]

you got that right John

 

[Kelly Painting]

Good post Wicked.... It is tough.... I make my living as a painter.
I started on my own just a few years ago... you could look back and see all my dumb posts. The thing is maybe my mind set is not what you should follow. What I mean is... that I run my business completely different then when I first started. I'm very busy and run things like a company thats busy.
I can give you allot of advice but you can't run your business like mine cuz...you don't have the business some of us do. All we can do is tell you are mistakes and maybe you could learn from them. Another thing is we all run are business differently, someone like Brian runs his business allot more efficiently than I do, but that works for him. I screamed word of mouth for years and I'm starting to see what advertising can do for me.

When I started on my own I worked for almost free, I can't believe I even survived.There were bad times when I didn't have money for food. Now I'm buying all new ladders.(I'll sell them this winter if I have to..lol)

The best advice I can give is to stay away from craigslist. I search it everyday. I buy stuff all the time...I could go to the store and buy the item...but I want a deal. I'm not in the business to give deals, so I do not ever post my business on craigslist. I want to be known for quality work, not a cheap price or a deal. Concentrate on the quality of your work,
that will be the only thing other than price that will make you different from everyone else. People want things done the right way more than a cheap price. Make everyone see that you do it better, thats where your reputation starts...and your word of mouth begins....good luck!

 

[Wickedgood!]

Thanks to everyone for the great advise... I should explain further about that guy that I was talking about. I was going to do a sq ft price on it but the guy said that he was going to Lowe's to get the paint and supplies and he basically just needed someone put the paint on the walls.. I possibly also blew the deal by "suggesting" to him that I go buy the paint because I know how much will be needed and I know the paint that I use and the finish that it will give me as well as the time it will take me to get that finish. I've never worked with the paint from Lowe’s but I've never heard good things about it. Looking back on it now as I type this, I was wrong on many levels.

I have a friend that I work with that is also a painter on the side... *Side Note* I hope I don't offend anyone when I say that I paint or I know someone paints "on the side"... It's just the nature of my fulltime job that I have the time to do something like this, "on the side"... ANYWAY, I guess I've been trying to model myself after what he does cause he has jobs lined up for months and months and he ONLY does T&M. I know that I could make good money doing things the way that you all do it but I just keep thinking that I want to get my foot in the door and the only to do that is to be the guy that does good work for cheap money but, that is NOT the way to do anything that is going to last. I do take pride in the job that I do and I figured that would be my, "calling card" if I could just get a job...

Again, thank you all for the help! I have a MUCH different view on this now...

Paul