I'm union and I'm not a commie! Yea, I said it.
to unionise or not to unionise...
ive been struggling with this question for the last year... should i join the local here and become a union guy or stay freelance and keep all mu money. i am self employed but i know there is some security in unionising and i wonder what you guys think?:blink:
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Come on John. We all know you listen to Pussy Riot.
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You won't get the nod over him! It is senority first in last out. you can be busting your hump all day long and the more senior guys are out slacking. You get your slip and back to the Hall you go. They get ROF'ed and they go back to the hall and get hired first because they are senior to you. Get the picture now how unions work? Oh and when your starving have no food on the table and you are in the hall waiting for a dispatch just remember to pay them dues. So the Buissness manager can keep his job.Robladd,
I got no problem with a guy on the job making the same dime I make and producing less than me. He can't underbid me! And I out produce him! Great! It is perfect even. As you know when the work slows I'll get the nod over him. The contractor makes more money off of me than he Duz off of him. You know how it works. Over the course of a year, or now going on 20 I've made out very well in this system we have.
I'd rather be in a competition to out produce the next guy than be in a competition to work for less than he will any day.
In the unions I've been in (district counsel 38 - BC, Canada, local 1590 -London/Sarnia, Ontario) there is no such thing as seniority, its written into or contacts.You won't get the nod over him! It is senority first in last out. you can be busting your hump all day long and the more senior guys are out slacking. You get your slip and back to the Hall you go. They get ROF'ed and they go back to the hall and get hired first because they are senior to you. Get the picture now how unions work? Oh and when your starving have no food on the table and you are in the hall waiting for a dispatch just remember to pay them dues. So the Buissness manager can keep his job.
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The union I belong to, absolutely follows seniority preference per the MOU. It doesn't matter if I'm the best looking and fastest painter, which no doubt I am. It'll still be be Joe Shlump who'll be working rather then me in the event of a lay off.
Thats fine. for you but most locals in the states work via senority and it is first in last out last in first out. you could be working till blood is pouring out your eyes and the shlub who has three years more then you, that takes 8, 30 min smoke breaks and moves one gallon of paint in eight hours. keeps his job while you get sent packing to the hall.In the unions I've been in (district counsel 38 - BC, Canada, local 1590 -London/Sarnia, Ontario) there is no such thing as seniority, its written into or contacts.
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Thats fine. for you but most locals in the states work via senority and it is first in last out last in first out. you could be working till blood is pouring out your eyes and the shlub who has three years more then you, that takes 8, 30 min smoke breaks and moves one gallon of paint in eight hours. keeps his job while you get sent packing to the hall.
I'm having a recurring nightmare. Thanks NWP for keeping it real.
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Robbladd.robladd said:I'm having a recurring nightmare. Thanks NWP for keeping it real. Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com
Yes. I solicate my work. The contractors hire who they want. Layoff who they want. Very Kool
I don't know any trade unions to have seniority. In house jobs. Maybe. Sure not new construction.
All locals should have open solicitation but I know some don't.
For a employee, IMHO, whatever flaws each local may have I will bet it to still be the best game in town, I mean, c'mon. Keep it real. Real.
A lot of guys with the negative attitudes towards unions and I beleive the northwest painter to be one among others on the thread, really have no experience or maybe one negative experience with them in the first place. And really have no idea of what they are so animatedly opinionated about.
Oden, I belonged to 4 halls in my full time in the bucket career. 286 Riverside CA, 5 Burbank CA, 567 Reno NV & my last 159 Las Vegas. Cali had open Solicitation so you could always stay busy one way or another. NV will help you find a non union job when it's slow. I had a in house job until 9/11 and was cut way back on hours and dragged up! The long haul job is maintenance at a hi rise office building or hotel. All new construction is going to do in the long is give you a good case of paint
burn out in the long run.
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burn out in the long run.
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Robladd,
Life is a constant struggle no matter what path you take IMO. The non union guys- they are subject to layoffs and whatnot same as we are. The owner/operator guys, when the economy takes a dump,where are they at? Same place...
I don't know. Put it this way. I got in I was painting. Here and there. Last job was a buck twenty a day. Cash. And that was good money then. But I had no nothing. No health. No unemployment insurance. Much less a retirement plan of any kind. Dead end!
I raised two kids on this thing. Well almost there. I ain't rich off of it. But I live I'd call middle class. I'd call it. Unbelievable cause it is so slow coming but 10 more good years( and I ain't counting no chickens just I can see it) I could get that full pension. 20'k more hours and anything could happen...but hell if I went out now I got something. I was well on my way to nothing.
If I have regrets. I shulda been a doctor or a pharmacist ( lately I've been rethinking my life as a medical professional. It changes. For a while I was a fireman or a police officer or a postman and retired....) beings I am a painter however spending my hours working a union contract I have no regrets about. Best game in town.
Life is a constant struggle no matter what path you take IMO. The non union guys- they are subject to layoffs and whatnot same as we are. The owner/operator guys, when the economy takes a dump,where are they at? Same place...
I don't know. Put it this way. I got in I was painting. Here and there. Last job was a buck twenty a day. Cash. And that was good money then. But I had no nothing. No health. No unemployment insurance. Much less a retirement plan of any kind. Dead end!
I raised two kids on this thing. Well almost there. I ain't rich off of it. But I live I'd call middle class. I'd call it. Unbelievable cause it is so slow coming but 10 more good years( and I ain't counting no chickens just I can see it) I could get that full pension. 20'k more hours and anything could happen...but hell if I went out now I got something. I was well on my way to nothing.
If I have regrets. I shulda been a doctor or a pharmacist ( lately I've been rethinking my life as a medical professional. It changes. For a while I was a fireman or a police officer or a postman and retired....) beings I am a painter however spending my hours working a union contract I have no regrets about. Best game in town.
thanks fellas for the advice, so i decided to take the test and challenge for journeyman in toronto, ont. CA(local 416). they want me to take a test and i dont know whats gonna be on it. i am an experienced painter, but im anxious to see whats on the actual test. is there any literature or resource where i could refresh my technical knowledge?
The Toronto finishing trade school offers refresher courses, and that's probably where you'll have to write you're IP.thanks fellas for the advice, so i decided to take the test and challenge for journeyman in toronto, ont. CA(local 416). they want me to take a test and i dont know whats gonna be on it. i am an experienced painter, but im anxious to see whats on the actual test. is there any literature or resource where i could refresh my technical knowledge?
Here's there website
http://www.ifstc.com/contact
Good luck on the exam, is hard. Anything under a 70% is a fail. Honestly I would take all three levels of school, its only 15 weeks if you can get then back to back to back. All the little things that you don't learn on site they teach you. You would be surprised how much is actually involved and encompassed in or trade. There are also drywall/tapping questions as well
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I think Robladd pretty much summed up what the test is all aboutrobladd said:Oden do you if your local is a Strong Union? I went through Boom of the mid 90's in Las Vegas there was a Tradesman Shortage and the Journeyman Test was 8 Questions. So if you could hold a paint brush you were a journeyman. Back in those days the "Painters" dragged a lot of folks through the mud with them. The "Local" was a big steel ball, and the painters were the chain. From your posts over the years I know you're a seasoned mechanic. What are you going to do when your putting out twice as much as the next guy and he's getting the same pay? Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com
Either they need men. Or they don't.
If they need you. They'll give you or change for u ur answers. If they don't they won't give u the test.
IMHO
We are a non-union company. Our experience with the local union has been negative. The local here Salted us. Not fricken cool. This is fair business practices?
We've also done work up in Philly. Philly is a union town from top to bottom. We were asked to bid on a mens' club in downtown Philadelphia almost within site of City Hall. We asked a local union contractor to bid the work for us and we would then use him as a sub. The job entailed preparing and painting about 30 pairs of shutters. Our local guy refused to bid on the work because it entailed 'carpentry'!?! The carpentry for him was the removal and re-installation of the shutters. As a member of the painter's union he was forbidden from doing any carpentry. In fact, he was also forbidden from doing any sheet rock replacement, hanging lights and any of the many things that we did as a matter of course in our normal work day.
I asked him what sort of trouble could we expect from the union if we tried to do this job ourselves. He said that we would likely be visited by OSHA everyday. I don't know how anything gets built in Philly when your need 8 or so different unions to perform the work.
We've also done work up in Philly. Philly is a union town from top to bottom. We were asked to bid on a mens' club in downtown Philadelphia almost within site of City Hall. We asked a local union contractor to bid the work for us and we would then use him as a sub. The job entailed preparing and painting about 30 pairs of shutters. Our local guy refused to bid on the work because it entailed 'carpentry'!?! The carpentry for him was the removal and re-installation of the shutters. As a member of the painter's union he was forbidden from doing any carpentry. In fact, he was also forbidden from doing any sheet rock replacement, hanging lights and any of the many things that we did as a matter of course in our normal work day.
I asked him what sort of trouble could we expect from the union if we tried to do this job ourselves. He said that we would likely be visited by OSHA everyday. I don't know how anything gets built in Philly when your need 8 or so different unions to perform the work.
As an employee classified as a journey level painter, and under the umbrella of one multiple trade union, I am constantly questioned about straying from anything strictly paint related. Even though my specific work group demands us to perform multiple disciplines for service requests.
It's not like we're stepping on any of the other trades toes, because none of the service requests involve tasks that are specific to any of the other trades. And if they are, we always give them rights of refusal before proceeding with contractors. Which they always seem to take the opportunity to refuse.
It's a real handicap in terms of maintaing any kind of momentum.
It's not like we're stepping on any of the other trades toes, because none of the service requests involve tasks that are specific to any of the other trades. And if they are, we always give them rights of refusal before proceeding with contractors. Which they always seem to take the opportunity to refuse.
It's a real handicap in terms of maintaing any kind of momentum.
Only cause it is comical and to me obviouseRoamer said:We are a non-union company. Our experience with the local union has been negative. The local here Salted us. Not fricken cool. This is fair business practices? We've also done work up in Philly. Philly is a union town from top to bottom. We were asked to bid on a mens' club in downtown Philadelphia almost within site of City Hall. We asked a local union contractor to bid the work for us and we would then use him as a sub. The job entailed preparing and painting about 30 pairs of shutters. Our local guy refused to bid on the work because it entailed 'carpentry'!?! The carpentry for him was the removal and re-installation of the shutters. As a member of the painter's union he was forbidden from doing any carpentry. In fact, he was also forbidden from doing any sheet rock replacement, hanging lights and any of the many things that we did as a matter of course in our normal work day. I asked him what sort of trouble could we expect from the union if we tried to do this job ourselves. He said that we would likely be visited by OSHA everyday. I don't know how anything gets built in Philly when your need 8 or so different unions to perform the work.
What I see
Me? Sub from U? Not.
It is so obvious.
We've subbed numerous commercial jobs to this local union contractor. Our relationship has always been amicable and profitable for both.
Funny that, in this instance, a business in Philadelphia would seek a painting bid from a contractor from Virginia. I can only assume that their experiences with local union contractors has been less than satisfactory.
Funny that, in this instance, a business in Philadelphia would seek a painting bid from a contractor from Virginia. I can only assume that their experiences with local union contractors has been less than satisfactory.
Well just think Roamer, if unions didn't work that way, you may be losing that painting contract to, well... the drywall guys.We are a non-union company. Our experience with the local union has been negative. The local here Salted us. Not fricken cool. This is fair business practices?
We've also done work up in Philly. Philly is a union town from top to bottom. We were asked to bid on a mens' club in downtown Philadelphia almost within site of City Hall. We asked a local union contractor to bid the work for us and we would then use him as a sub. The job entailed preparing and painting about 30 pairs of shutters. Our local guy refused to bid on the work because it entailed 'carpentry'!?! The carpentry for him was the removal and re-installation of the shutters. As a member of the painter's union he was forbidden from doing any carpentry. In fact, he was also forbidden from doing any sheet rock replacement, hanging lights and any of the many things that we did as a matter of course in our normal work day.
I asked him what sort of trouble could we expect from the union if we tried to do this job ourselves. He said that we would likely be visited by OSHA everyday. I don't know how anything gets built in Philly when your need 8 or so different unions to perform the work.
:whistling2:Penthouse? Was it?Roamer said:We've subbed numerous commercial jobs to this local union contractor. Our relationship has always been amicable and profitable for both. Funny that, in this instance, a business in Philadelphia would seek a painting bid from a contractor from Virginia. I can only assume that their experiences with local union contractors has been less than satisfactory.
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