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trying to get better at spraying

9K views 100 replies 15 participants last post by  Woodco 
#1 ·
hello fellow painters from around the world.

Is there a good place online to learn about the finer points of airless spraying? I know the basics, but as a new spray man i find it difficult to get consistent results.

If you guys know of good threads on the subject, id like to know about it.

thanks
 
#3 ·
hello fellow painters from around the world.

Is there a good place online to learn about the finer points of airless spraying? I know the basics, but as a new spray man i find it difficult to get consistent results.

If you guys know of good threads on the subject, id like to know about it.

thanks
Youtube is a great resource for learning, but doesn't replace the actual hands on experience. You have to get all of your senses involved. Even if it means tasting, But not always....I'm joking. Don't ingest paint. It's hard to get off your teeth.
 
#4 ·
youtube gave me its all already, i wish that guy xc painter was still making video, aha.

Im wondering about optimal 1 coat paint thickness on new drywall. i know i can put it on thicker because the drywall is "thirsty" but yesterday threw me off, i was spraying roman pro 977 wallpaper primer and all was looking good until i came back to spray the ceillings, i had a lot of runs in the wall ceilling angles.

my question is, what is a good coat? do you make it cover completely on your first pass and then do the same thing on the overlap or do you make it thinner on the first pass and then your 50% overlap completes the coverage? jeez thats a lot of words
 
#7 ·
There's nothing better than just doing it. Here is my best advice.
1. It's best to use smaller tips than you think should, that will eliminate a lot of runs. You can always move faster if you need to.
2. Force yourself to squeeze before you hit the surface, then just off, your hand should always be moving.
3. Watch for things that will catch your hand or arm that will stop you from moving the gun.
4. A spray pattern is flat and not three dimentional. So when spraying jambs or pieces that have lots of angle, you have to hit most of them, but overlaps is where the runs occur so plan your spray strategy ahead of time.

As a note on your primer run problem. I am betting you were using constant trigger? Where you don't release the trigger but just move over to start your overlap. That's a pro move, knowing when to flick your wrist to eliminate the build-up at the joint takes practice.
 
#8 ·
There's nothing better than just doing it. Here is my best advice.
1. It's best to use smaller tips than you think should, that will eliminate a lot of runs. You can always move faster if you need to.
2. Force yourself to squeeze before you hit the surface, then just off, your hand should always be moving.
3. Watch for things that will catch your hand or arm that will stop you from moving the gun.
4. A spray pattern is flat and not three dimentional. So when spraying jambs or pieces that have lots of angle, you have to hit most of them, but overlaps is where the runs occur so plan your spray strategy ahead of time.

As a note on your primer run problem. I am betting you were using constant trigger? Where you don't release the trigger but just move over to start your overlap. That's a pro move, knowing when to flick your wrist to eliminate the build-up at the joint takes practice.
yeah i was doing the constant trigger thing. I think that thoses units i did were also problematic because they used to be the one where the trash slide used to be, and now there was only a plywood in the window, hence a bit of cold air was going around every room.
 
#10 ·
Depending on who did the taping, and what kind of finish they want, spray-only can be acceptable.

I've done some jobs for low-income housing where I tinted the primer to the wall colour, sprayed, and then rolled one coat of finish with the cheapest paint I could get. Cheapest paint, as spec'd by the city, so they can repaint the units for cheap due to high turnover.
 
#13 ·
50 % coverage on every pass. Some youtube videos are good, and some are not. Beware. When we are spraying walls, my first pass is half on the wall, half on the ceiling (mask as necessary). I center the spray pattern on the corner between the ceiling and wall. Next pass, the top of your spray pattern should be at the corner, so your second pass will now have 100% coverage on the top half of the pass and the lower half is 50% coverage. Each pass after that, I am centering the fan on bottom edge of the previous pass. The gun should stay perpendicular to the wall always. Do not sway your hand as you move from one side to the other. It should also stay an equal distance from the surface while remaining perpendicular for the entire pass. If you sway or turn your hand as you're spraying, you will make smiles and have uneven coverage. You should also be moving at the beginning of each pass before you pull the trigger and you don't stop until after you have released the trigger. Otherwise, you will be loading up the wall at the beginning and end of each section if you are not moving or just keep it triggered. I have seen videos of guys not doing this. It is poor technique. As you get more experience and see these things happen, there are times when you may break some of these rules for different situations, but it takes experience.
 
#14 ·
I usually tint my primer, spray the walls, hitting the ceilings a bit, then switch to my ceiling paint in a closet. Then I spray the ceilings, hitting the tops of the walls a bit. Zero cutting in needed for the ceilings, just a quick backroll, and the tops of the walls are no biggie to cut in with the finish.
 
#21 ·
Following thoughts:
1. Spraying lends itself to a greater wet film thickness than a pressure application, i.e. brushing and rolling.
2. A wet film on it's own, will absorb into a substrate as surface tension increases via solvent evaporation and subsequent coalescence.
3. Pushing a wet film into a surface decreases the WFT and subsequent dry film thickness on the surface of a substrate
4. Textured surfaces benefit more with back rolling, but are often just sprayed
5. For smooth walls, rolling helps fill voids, pinholes, and other imperfections that don't easily fill with a static WFT i.e. spraying.

Comment:
For smooth wall interiors, I can understand why spraying and back rolling a primer on a new drywall interior would be beneficial in order to eliminate time consuming cut in and to better fill imperfections i.e. joint compound pinholes. But after that, I don't see the benefit of applying a finish in the same manner. I would either brush and roll, or spray. Not both. It just seems like an un-necessary extra step in the application process.

Question:
For touch up purposes, If you did spray and back roll the primer, but chose to just spray the finish without back rolling, would the roller texture of the primer be revealed enough to assist in concealing any touch ups applied with a tight roller there after?
 
#23 ·
I have found there is a difference in the sheen, and that is a big part of the reason the touch up stands out. A sprayed ceiling is shinier than a rolled ceiling using the same product. If you just spray a ceiling, and then touch up with a roller, the rolled spot appears flatter than the rest of the ceiling. I have been successful with some of the new ultra flat products touching up though. I sprayed Promar ceiling and didn't back roll it, and then of course, the homeowners decided to move a light fixture and I had to patch a 6" hole in the middle of the ceiling. The ceiling had been previously rolled, so it did show roller texture. The touch up blended in perfectly, although I was sweating the whole time. I was afraid I was going to have to paint the whole ceiling. I did it one previous time with the Promar ceiling where we sprayed the ceiling and had a touch up, but we noticed it the next day and touched it up with the sprayer. Both times, it was like it never happened. The Promar ceiling dries ultra flat.
 
#24 ·
I agree. An ever so slight stippled finish helps with touch ups. However, I still don't see how introducing the stress of spraying can be beneficial when you end up using a roller anyway. You can dip a roller in a five and slap a load of paint pretty quickly and still have time to roll it out evenly.

I just like the methodical and peaceful process of rolling verses the noisy airless, overspray, cramped trigger fingers, dragging hoses, clogged tips, and the clean up. Not to mention the herniated disk from lifting that heavy motor all over the place. At the end of the day, I think spraying is an application designed to hit it and walk away without any further disturbance.
 
#36 ·
Pressure applied by a brush and roller is probably less than pressure applied by a gun.... So there goes that theory.

Best practice is brushing and rolling because there are skills required? That's a load of BS. it also takes practice and skill to spray properly. How could the best way of doing something be the "most difficult" or "most traditional"? That makes absolutely no sense at all. The best way of doing something should be based on getting the best results, not on some old fashioned thinking.
 
#40 ·
I disagree about pressure from the sprayer. Because the amount of product being pushed through the tip is small, it quickly loses force. Pressure is measured at the tip. By the time it hits the substrate, it is hitting it with far less force than when it is exiting the tip. Unlike a power a power washer which is pushing 2.5 to 4 gals a minute, most airless sprayers used in residential painting are in the range of .5 to 1.3 gals per a minute. It doesn't have the volume to maintain pressure and force. If it did, you would be able to power wash houses with your sprayer too.
 
#42 ·
The point is, brushing and rolling is a tried and true fundamental of the painting industry. The airless is a tool advancement for production purposes, but it is not always applicable.

Example; A typical welding course begins with oxy/acetylene. And although MIG, TIG, and Stick are far more productive, O/A is a fundamental that remains. And the reason is, there are times when you have to apply a craft in its most basic form in order to avoid the complications that technology and advancements can bring. It's not "Old Fashion". It's common sense.
 
#45 ·
Noones arguing that brush and roller isnt the fundamentals of the industry, but youre making it sound like a job that is done by hand is 'better' than a job that was sprayed which simply is untrue.

And, I think it goes without saying that we're talking about a big enough job that warrants spraying, and not just Grandmas kitchen... Does that really need to be specified?
 
#46 ·
There is a time and a place for every type of application. Many variables involved in every scenario that need careful planning. If were talking about drywall though, I believe if your spraying, backrolling is best practice mostly because it will give some texture to hide imperfections and provides a more consistant sheen and over all even application. Have you ever looked down a sun wall that hasn't been backrolled? You can see all the tape lines and sprayer patterns. I Tried not backrolling on this Church renovation one time. It looked horrible. Had to re-roll eveything.
 
#56 ·
My take (for what it's worth):

To do anything -RIGHT- takes skill. Lots of people Brush, Roll & Spray with no skill. What has been reiterated in the thread multiple times, is you have to factor in a lot of variable to find the correct application for the job.

In a lot of new commercial work, we will spray the Primer and 1st Finish coat, allow many of the other finishes to be installed, and return and Brush and roll the final coat. This serves two main purposes:
  • Less Trade Damage - By returning after many of the other finishes have been installed we mitigate a lot of extra work with Trade Damage. When presented to the GC correctly they can usually see that it will save them money in the long run because while our base price is higher, it saves them money because there is a lower Allowance calculated in and they don't spend a lot of time dealing with back charges or extra work for trade damage.
  • Maintenance - A Rolled wall is much easier to touchup by the regular maintenance crew.
We paint LDS Temples in many countries and we have developed a reputation with the Owner because our mantra has always been: This building has to be maintained. If we only spray the finish, then you will need to bring back a crew from the US for even the smallest touchup. But if we roll the finish, then your engineer can usually make a manageable repair until somebody can return or other work is scheduled. Temple finishes are a WHOLE different level than most other buildings I have ever worked in. The line that helped me sell the Church on not dictating the means and methods (Spray Only) was: They didn't spray the Sistine Chapel, and nobody complains about the quality... 🤷‍♂️
 
#63 ·
Yeah, I'm always a bit baffled as to why “speed” is often used like a dirty word.

Certainly, in its basest form, speed can equate to the blow and go business model; outfits that get the bid based on the lowest price, not because they can be competitive utilizing well honed practices, but because they don't give a fart. They can't build a business on repeat customers or referrals, and they really don't care. They generally are in a race to the bottom and most often are no longer to found in a few years time.

No, I am not talking about speed in the way that equates to sloppiness, poor workmanship, or cutting corners. I am talking about speed in terms of efficiency and experience. Experience in any aspect of our trade helps one to be come more efficient. Planning and sequencing is a huge part of that. We know that we typically need to be thinking several steps ahead - so we are now doing "A" so that we can do steps B, C, and D in due course. And that results in efficiency and that results in speed.

Speed is also achieved by knowing (and having the ability) to utilize the best process and tools that will allow one to complete a job satisfactorily in the shortest amount of time. As I referenced to earlier, the recent job of a rental I was asked to do for some neighbors (who are also good friends) in order to get it ready for selling was a good example. Pop corn ceilings, no floor coverings to worry about, windows that were sheetrock in on three sides with only a sill to paint differently, doors pulled (including hinges), cabinets in the kitchen and bath that could be easily isolated for painting later, all pointed to spraying as the most efficient, and fastest, way to go. And having the option (and confidence) to choose the best way to proceed - not just a once trick pony - makes you a more rounded, and successful professional.
 
#64 ·
The obsession with pulling out an airless at every chance possible, particularly on residential repaints, has everything to do with the illusion of speed. It's a hyper reaction to minimizing the impact of constrained time frames, economy budgets, ladder usage, over scheduling, caffeine, impatience, and a competitive and saturated field. At the end of the day, the pace of spraying is frenetic and often requires more prep and clean up than one would like to believe.

With that said, of course there are times when spraying is more practical. But more often than not, it's used as a complete replacement for brushing and rolling in the same way the nail gun has replaced the hammer. And there enlies the working man's plight. Run at everything you do for fear of not keeping up. Try sustaining that pace for the long term. lol.
 
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