We are currently removing 25 linear ft of wallpaper from a commercial property.
The wallpaper is of commercial grade and tore off in complete sheets leaving the glue residue.
I typically use zin cover stain to seal the glue but due to office personal I went with kills low order oil.
We primed with the correct coverage and allowed 2 hour dry time with air movers to circulate the air. We did not directly point the fans on the surface we painted. Killz state 1 hour recoat window.
Applied a light topping coat to smooth out wall area and left for the day.
Returned today to sand and prime. Once we began priming with latex we found the oil primer coat to disbound from the wall and started peeling with the roller. No matter how light we rolled the glue or primer would fail.
In all my years I have never seen oil primer fail on a wallpaper removal.
Any ideas to a cause and a fix for the customer:vs_coffee:
Did you remove all the glue ? I have seen skim coats fail because the person who removed the paper did not remove all the glue and the skim coat bubbled out ! If you did not remove the glue , the primer can reactivate the glue that was left on wall and not bond correctly !
The point of the oil primer is to seal the glue in so water soluble products don't activate the glue.
I'm wondering if the re coat time stated by kills is not on par. Thus leaving the primer not fully cured and still gassing out.
Our skim coat was very light to the point you could still see the primer. I would imagine the skim coat would allow the oil primer to continue breathing to cure. Opposed to a full coat of latex top coat.
Probably the kill odor less....let it dry, see if you can scrape any of it off to a solid surface. Hit it with a couple coats of gardz and skim it. Ideally all paste (so as not to offend our resident paper hangers wink, wink)gets removed. Not always possible. I've gone over that crap with gardz or coverstain for years with no problem...skim, gardz or prime and paint it...it's commercial....
I'm thinking the conditions weren't right for proper cure time for the primer. Couple that with the moisture from skimming and you have the answer to your problem.
As far as fixing. Sand or scrape and reprime. Wait overnight and skim. Then whatever combination of prime and paint.
I've never had any luck with KILZ odorless. It just doesn't have the same "blocking" capabilities as regular KILZ. I know that's not the issue here but it leads me to believe there's a problem using it to seal up paste residue. 2 to 4 hours is not enough time to allow the oil primer to dry. It just isn't, even if the can says so. Overnight would have been the better option. Heck, I even wait overnight for some latex primers to dry properly. I can't explain the chemistry, but I just don't risk potential problems with primer drying very often, unless it's an absolute hurry up job.
I think Optimal nailed it in post #7:
"I'm wondering if the re coat time stated by kills is not on par. Thus leaving the primer not fully cured and still gassing out."
If it is a hybrid oil it will not seal like a true alkyd. Had many failures using an odorless over glue. I'm not sure of the chemistry but I know that the hybrid oil's have a reaction with glue on walls. We had a large failure in a high end hotel using Zinsser odorless and with in two months there was intercoat failure. Any true alkyd or phenolic alkyd will not have a reaction. BIN, Primelock, Seal Lock, old formula Coverstain, or Guardz should work.
Roman 35 (I think it's called?)it has the same properties and effect that gardz has ...can it be primed off hours if the gardz smell is problematic? Gardz is definitely the way to go with that imo...coverstain or an equivalent is the only other option that I know of.
It sounds like the paste is letting go from the moisture in whatever you put over top of it. I would test an area by wetting the wall with water from a garden sprayer and then cover with plastic to let it soak. Once the moisture has some time to work the whole area may release enough to scrape clean.
I had the rep from kilz come out and he was puzzled also as to why the oil was not adhering to the glue. In some places we were able to scrap the primer off I. Sheets.
We ended up scraping and sanding with large drywall sander and vac.
The rep brought out some kilz klear, similar to gardz.
We applied 2 coats and left it to cure. Came back skimmed and painted.
I had the rep from kilz come out and he was puzzled also as to why the oil was not adhering to the glue. In some places we were able to scrap the primer off I. Sheets.
We ended up scraping and sanding with large drywall sander and vac.
The rep brought out some kilz klear, similar to gardz.
We applied 2 coats and left it to cure. Came back skimmed and painted.
Done deal.[/QUOTE]
For the time being anyway:vs_laugh: I sure as heck would NOT go back to a product(company) that already had failed.
What's the definition of insanity?
This thread is getting a little edgy in my opinion.
I consider priming over residual wallpaper paste to not be a good painting practice. But I am aware that it needs to be done on occasion, and I have done it myself. I've never had a problem using BIN, or most oil base paints as long as I allowed the paste to dry and the primer to dry properly before skimming over with mud, or painting with latex.
I think whenever we are potentially compromising a good coating system in the interest of accommodating the sensibilities of the occupants, it is time to consider off hours work.
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