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Having done only interiors for the last dozen years, I like the BMs products I have used and if a customer expresses an desire for me use it, I am all totally on board. But usually, I just find it hard to try and sell a customer on the much higher cost of it. Even if it was worth it (and in some instances they very well may be), there are other interior products that will give great production and protection at somewhere around half the cost. Those products are going to go on just fine and give a more than adequate amount of service until the customer gets tired of the color, or their living situations change, and a new paint job is considered.

Some of the big BM advocates here may be able to refute what I am about to say, but I have felt for some time that BM has simply taken the "Crown Royal approach"* and have made their products so much more expensive in order to create the perception that they ARE just that much better and therefore worth the higher cost. With a few exceptions, I have yet to see much evidence of that being true.

* a slightly higher than average spirit that they put in a velvet bag and bumped up the cost by a huge amount, simply in order to create the image of it being a top shelf brand. In reality, there are much better ones out there at much lower prices - people just have to do the homework and not just succumb to the marketing.
I think where they get you is in their colors, especially the historic palette. Of course the other paint companies say they can match them but I can always tell the difference. Other than that I agree 100% with your view. The BM store in my town went out of business a decade ago, and I have only had to go in search of their paints a handful of times to get a product that someone couldn't live without.
 

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
Having done only interiors for the last dozen years, I like the BMs products I have used and if a customer expresses an desire for me use it, I am all totally on board. But usually, I just find it hard to try and sell a customer on the much higher cost of it. Even if it was worth it (and in some instances they very well may be), there are other interior products that will give great production and protection at somewhere around half the cost. Those products are going to go on just fine and give a more than adequate amount of service until the customer gets tired of the color, or their living situations change, and a new paint job is considered.

Some of the big BM advocates here may be able to refute what I am about to say, but I have felt for some time that BM has simply taken the "Crown Royal approach"* and have made their products so much more expensive in order to create the perception that they ARE just that much better and therefore worth the higher cost. With a few exceptions, I have yet to see much evidence of that being true.

* a slightly higher than average spirit that they put in a velvet bag and bumped up the cost by a huge amount, simply in order to create the image of it being a top shelf brand. In reality, there are much better ones out there at much lower prices - people just have to do the homework and not just succumb to the marketing.
I think in defense of BM, as much as I kinda don't like/have a love/hate relationship with their products, I think they to some extent front the R&D cost for a lot of other paint companies. Waterbased tints were a first from them, Aura was a first in its class paint, then Advance was one of the first mass marketed waterbourne alkyd paints. Now with Scuff-X, every company is coming out with a bootleg version of that, too. It's not to say other companies didn't have equivalent products before BM, but the other companies seem to wait and see on what BM does in the market, then come out with a "me too!" product.

Color and whiteness is definitely something different/better with BM, even paints like Ben tend to cover amazing in deep base colors, but due to BM trying to be as true white as possible, often you get really ridiculous 4 coater jobs even with an Aura or similar, which is frustrating and quite silly looking.

Exterior, though it's more of a hunch for sure, I do think their stuff holds up overall better.

I definitely do agree most use of BM is due to brand perception and not a genuine belief their paint is just that much better than the competition. On my own end too, despite problems people talk about with SW stores, and often the younger kids' knowledge is terrible, my personal SW store was absolutely nothing but nice and 100% professional towards me every step of the way, got me a charge account the first day I walked in, offer me discounted trial runs of paint, etc. Always nice and professional and treat me super well. My local BM store on the other hand always was standoffish, snobby, acted suspicious towards me, and 90% of the time whenever I walked in had a "yeah, what do you want?" dismissive attitude towards me.
 

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Brushed a front doorframe with the stock black bm command satin. Turned out nice in the end, but was having an issue with micro bubbles in the paint during application. Never had that while brushing a product before. Had to thin it a bit with water, and brush it out nice and thin. Must be a urethane thing? 🤷‍♀️
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
Two very uncool and unnoteworthy paints used, but nonetheless used.

SW "Property Advantage" white maintenance paint from Lowes. Labeled interior/exterior. Used on a wooden fence that may get torn down due to lots of bowing/etc. I bought 3 gallons of Woodscapes for it initially, but just doing one side with two coats took about 2.5 gallons, so I'd be 5 gallons in for both sides. I'll save the Woodscapes gallons for my front deck rails/etc, which will be mostly new. I mean, it's certainly not the best paint, but I can't complain at $40 a 5er, being careful in application it covered well enough in two coats over bare rough PT wood that was pressure washed and brightened, and it cuts the coating cost of the fence from $200+ to $40. As far as longterm, it's labeled for exterior, too, and seems to not be chalky/etc, but again, may get torn down in a few years and just want my HOA happier.

Valspar Stainblocking Bonding Primer.

I absolutely adore this primer now. I would really rate it somewhere near Fresh Start 046 in how good it is. I used it as a drywall primer this time, over bare new drywall and skimcoat, but also over 1970s very yellowed (from acidity in the paper?) drywall in the adjoining room after popcorn removal where new joint compound was bleeding yellow. There were a few actual water stains as well, and those didn't bleed through either. While obviously it doesn't look good enough to be a topcoat, I'm rather surprised how good it is, and 100% support this primer as a Zinsser Bullseye replacement. Consistency is weird on it, though. It's very very thick like yogurt/pudding, but it actually brushes and rolls out well with decent open time, but the thickness is similar to BM Aura. I wasn't really keeping track of square feet per gallon, maybe thickness gives you less, but actually if I think about it I used about 3/4 of a gallon over around 300 square feet, and bare drywall is a pretty porous surface.
 

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We’re into gallon 16 of 30 pro classic semi gloss oil. All brush and roll. Using ultra spec flat for the rest of the project. Had to drive 10.5 hours round trip out of state back in April to get the paint. By far the best product sw has to offer.


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That would put me over the edge right there. You do realize its the 21st century right?;)
 

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We’re into gallon 16 of 30 pro classic semi gloss oil. All brush and roll. Using ultra spec flat for the rest of the project. Had to drive 10.5 hours round trip out of state back in April to get the paint. By far the best product sw has to offer.


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It's weird how regions work. I can't get anything oil at SW by me. If I want to use oil, I go with BM Impervo. Is the Pro-Classic oil that much better?

I recently had a customer give me close to a full gallon of SW Emerald Enamel because they didn't have a use for it. That is really nice to work with. I could tip off doors like oil, but it had a faster dry time. Plus, single coat coverage (white over white
 

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Discussion Starter · #69 ·
It's weird how regions work. I can't get anything oil at SW by me. If I want to use oil, I go with BM Impervo. Is the Pro-Classic oil that much better?

I recently had a customer give me close to a full gallon of SW Emerald Enamel because they didn't have a use for it. That is really nice to work with. I could tip off doors like oil, but it had a faster dry time. Plus, single coat coverage (white over white
I think around here Proclassic oil is considered worse, but having used both, albeit when I was more of a beginner painter like 5+ years ago, I think they both really handled/etc about the same. I would go even further and say you could probably get the exact same results as each one with Rustoleum oil, which is much cheaper and more easily available, and still available in satin. I found Rusto and the SW Proclassic to be similar in sheen, too. Depends on how you reduce/what you add to each one, too, but I found all 3 really about the same in handling, etc.

One thing I would do with Rusto that always made customers ecstatic was brushing out rusty baseboard heaters with it, easy cheap add on to a job that doesn't take a lot of time and effort and makes customers thrilled, as long as the smell didn't bother them much.

Still, I'd rather use the hybrids and urethane alkyds and that sort of thing over real oil, just because as I got older I got way more sensitive to the chemical effects of paint, particularly oil based stuff.
 

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That would put me over the edge right there. You do realize its the 21st century right?;)
I know it’s not something all too common but we do get into quite a bit of it. The entire house has oil on it so it has to be oil again. Too big of a job and too risky to not use the oil. The smell does linger for a couple weeks

Just many of the doors we did. All brush and roll.



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SICO EVOLUTION / PAINT & PRIMER / Discovered during supply chain issues and could not get a full order of anything else.

Really does an excellent job of priming / Not promotional BS
Scrub Resistant
Easy to Clean Finish
Rolled out beautifully / brushed nicely as well
High Hide
Great Coverage / Very close to 600 sq.ft.!
Great price at RONA, on special @ $50 per.
I got into a lot of trouble with that as I'd calculated 400sq.ft. per, A LOT of excess paint on a whole 4 bedroom interior job! Sadly, I did not read the TDS until I realized I was not running through the paint as I'd expected.
 

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Some of the big BM advocates here may be able to refute what I am about to say, but I have felt for some time that BM has simply taken the "Crown Royal approach"* and have made their products so much more expensive in order to create the perception that they ARE just that much better and therefore worth the higher cost. With a few exceptions, I have yet to see much evidence of that being true.
* a slightly higher than average spirit that they put in a velvet bag and bumped up the cost by a huge amount, simply in order to create the image of it being a top shelf brand. In reality, there are much better ones out there at much lower prices - people just have to do the homework and not just succumb to the marketing.
However BM has the best customer service I have ever encountered!!!
 

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However BM has the best customer service I have ever encountered!!!
Depends on the store. I have heard some here complain about their BM stores along with SW or any other company store for that matter. Heck, I imagine that in some parallel universe even an HD somewhere has a paint staff that know their d***s from a stir stick - but not ours.

Our SW is a great store staffed with knowledgable people - for the most part. It's a traning store for managers so I am careful about directing my questions to those I know have a strong knowledge base.
We also have a great BM store as well as an equally outstanding Miller Paints store - which is a regional chain. So all in all, the painters in our area can consider themselves pretty fortunate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #75 ·
Depends on the store. I have heard some here complain about their BM stores along with SW or any other company store for that matter. Heck, I imagine that in some parallel universe even an HD somewhere has a paint staff that know their d***s from a stir stick - but not ours.

Our SW is a great store staffed with knowledgable people - for the most part. It's a traning store for managers so I am careful about directing my questions to those I know have a strong knowledge base.
We also have a great BM store as well as an equally outstanding Miller Paints store - which is a regional chain. So all in all, the painters in our area can consider themselves pretty fortunate.
I definitely found BM as a company nicer on the phone compared to SW, speaking to reps from both. From individual stores, though, my personal SW store in town is much nicer than the BM store in town by far.

SICO EVOLUTION / PAINT & PRIMER ? Discovered during supply chain issues and could not get a full order of anything else.

Really does an excellent job of priming / Not promotional BS
Scrub Resistant
Easy to Clean Finish
Rolled out beautifully / brushed nicely as well
High Hide
Great Coverage / Very close to 600 sq.ft.!
Great price at RONA, on special @ $50 per.
I got into a lot of trouble with that as I'd calculated 400sq.ft. per, A LOT of excess paint on a whole 4 bedroom interior job! Sadly, I did not read the TDS until I realized I was not running through the paint as I'd expected.
I'm feeling this way about the Valspar Bonding Primer from Lowes, it's definitely among the best primers I've used so far. I blocked a water stain and yellowed drywall paper in one coat with it, and it spreads extremely well and far. Very good high hide coverage, too. Very thick, but also easy to work with, reasonable open time, levels well, etc. Some surprises for sure in places you don't expect. It's definitely my 1-2-3 replacement now.

So for myself personally, I went through some of the Promar ceiling paint and finished up my own ceiling project last night. I'm pretty impressed/happy at it, mainly in that the low spatter claims of it were definitely true, and it is a much brighter white than the old Masterhide I used to use. I do think it's slightly less flat than Masterhide so if things had super duper critical lighting/etc, maybe I'd reconsider using it, but overall for my $21 or so price, I'm pretty happy with it and happy I got a nice bright white ceiling paint that still was nice and easy to work with, had a long open time, etc.
 

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@RH I once had them pay every scrap of material as well as labour on a really big faux finish job that their product destroyed. They paid for everything on that redo, down to the last inch of painters tape!
 

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@celicaxx SICO EVOLUTION can be painted directly on fresh mud and drywall!
Thats good to know. All the Rona's closed down in NL a few years ago, but I think our local hardware store Kent carries it. I do recall using Sico on a house a few years back that the client puchased. I remember it having really good coverage!
 

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Brushed a front doorframe with the stock black bm command satin. Turned out nice in the end, but was having an issue with micro bubbles in the paint during application. Never had that while brushing a product before. Had to thin it a bit with water, and brush it out nice and thin. Must be a urethane thing? 🤷‍♀️
I had that happen with SW MSA, I asked the store about it and they suggested adding just a cap full of thinner to it. Surprisingly the thinner actually worked and the micro bubbling stopped.
 

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Thats good to know. All the Rona's closed down in NL a few years ago, but I think our local hardware store Kent carries it. I do recall using Sico on a house a few years back that the client puchased. I remember it having really good coverage!
LOWES also carries the SICO line. Crazy good for a big box buy, no? Until this SICO product I would avoid Big Box buys for anything other than masking tape or mud. PPG has clearly upped the SICO game since they purchased it. Their new self priming paint technology was a game changer with the timeless line; clearly, they are applying that technology to the SICO products. Evolution is an amazing product. ( I used to hate SICO!) Being able to start and end with the finish paint means 2 full coats and your done. That's one coat less than if I'd had to use primer and one can just roll right over repairs and patches.

I've attached the TDS
 

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