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Discussion Starter · #81 ·
LOWES also carries the SICO line. Crazy good for a big box buy, no? Until this SICO product I would avoid Big Box buys for anything other than masking tape or mud. PPG has clearly upped the SICO game since they purchased it. Their new self priming paint technology was a game changer with the timeless line; clearly, they are applying that technology to the SICO products. Evolution is an amazing product. ( I used to hate SICO!) Being able to start and end with the finish paint means 2 full coats and your done. That's one coat less than if I'd had to use primer and one can just roll right over repairs and patches.
As far as I know there's no SICO paints in USA, Canadian only line. We can get their Timeless line at HDs here, though, but Manor Hall is still their top paint sold only in PPG stores. I kinda personally think on the Sherwin end their Valspar box store stuff is a great value relative to what's available in SW stores. But I've not used a lot of box store PPG stuff, but I have a bad taste in my mouth after an experience using Olympic One which was PPG at Lowes, in one room of my house with a pastel purple in flat it basically looked exactly as good as BM Regal Matte and covered beautifully and was nice and durable, then in my own room with a deep base green, it came out eggshell/satin and had really poor adhesion. So it makes me suspect about their quality control for the box stores to hit a price point.

Personally while I have just painted right over patches quite a lot without spot priming, or spot primed with just the paint first, etc, for me in some scenarios it's just easier to prime. I tend to be doing more skimcoat work, too, so in a scenario of a skimcoat imo you should always prime first. I've found personally if you're using premixed AP mud usually you can get away with painting right over things with almost any decent paint if you want, but hot mud seemingly always flashes no matter what paint is over it, so if something is all hot mud it gets a decent coat of primer, but also with hot mud I tend to do a final pass with AP as a sanding layer, to make it easier to sand but also less likely to flash.
 

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Sorry, to my fellow painters, stateside! I read here the SICO line is not available in the USA. @celicaxx , I have yet to try it on most of the places listed in the TDS but will be doing some major work on my own house in the not to distant future and I'll put the evolution through its paces then, from bare wood & drywall to major plaster repairs. It has always been my practice to try new methods & materials on my own property before trying them on as paid contract. An aside, I did an exterior job with Timeless exterior on a gazebo about 5 years ago, for a regular client. I used it without prior primer and I must say, it's holding up, really well, so far. :( Timeless is no longer sold in Canada.
 

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Discussion Starter · #83 · (Edited)
I guess to review two quite controversial paints now. Very controversial.

I finally got to using Behr's Urethane Alkyd trim paint on some stuff more substantial than some railings, and Behr Ultra Scuff Defense wall paint in eggshell in my own house.

First, Behr Urethane Alkyd I don't think I have anything negative to say about it at all, I think it handles quite like SW Emerald Urethane, and has been one of the closest things I've found to Muralo Ultra thus far. Coverage is awesome, handles great, levels great, great open time, overall a fantastic trim paint and a bargain. Very good one coat coverage in an off white (something like White Dove...) over white primer as well. I think the only negative is the cure time really is about one whole week, it certainly can't be fingernailed off in large sections or anything after a day, but it does take a week to get hard.

Second paint is much more controversial, Behr Ultra Scuff Defense. My opinion is quite mixed, but overall positive. One one hand, brushing it out is absolutely miserable and it has the most brush drag of any paint I've ever used. Can't go back to where you last brushed after maybe 20 seconds. I think in a lot of ways it handles like Aura, so after having a lot of time using Aura at work I got used to a brushing system, and letting cuts dry fully and all that. I think unlike Aura it's really not all that thick, but it's much more draggy, and Aura is a pretty draggy paint. At work when I first encountered Aura years ago, I was cursing it and saying it felt like Behr. So Behr Ultra I think for sure is a bootleg Aura. I think in a professional setting Behr Ultra would for sure give me a wicked sore wrist if I had to spend 8 hours brushing it out, and I even added a splash of water and used a quite stiff brush to no avail. But, to a DIYer without a steady wrist, maybe an awful brush, and just spending a couple hours at a time, it's likely fine.

For the positives though, it does have real true one coat coverage at least if it's not super drastic of a color change. In a light blue over a light green (somewhat similar colors) it really did achieve it, without needing to put on a really thick mil layer either, in fact for one wall I ran the roller quite dryer than I normally do and still had great one coat coverage. Rolling was also fine, albeit these were small walls of about 8 foot wide sections, but I used a 1/2" nap microfiber and backrolled as normal and everything was fine, didn't pull into dry paint, etc, but it was going eggshell over eggshell. The other thing too with it is I think the "Self leveling" qualities are pretty good with it, you can leave it alone and spots that look kinda questionable when wet do just level out well. Also it does "self prime" over drywall patches that are spot primed with the paint first, and not flash even with one coat over everything else. I think the only negative I don't like is the eggshell is a shiny eggshell, but I expected that.

Overall I'm happy with it in my scenario, as a professional you can't really bid "one coat" jobs since you're essentially gambling no matter how good the paint is, the brush drag is horrendous, but... it works. I wanted to try it mainly because I'd gotten so used to working with Aura and Regal in sometimes less than ideal conditions, and they reminded me a little of Behr I used as a beginner painter for friends/etc. So I decided to apply my techniques I learned with those BM paints back to Behr a lot of years later, and it worked out very well. Everything has different techniques and learning curves. Overall though, I would recommend it.
 

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For the positives though, it does have real true one coat coverage at least if it's not super drastic of a color change.
I get people in all the time asking for one coat paint. I tell them BM doesn't make any one coat paint and most companies that say they do are full of ****. Real True One Coat coverage would mean if you are painting a bright red over a white wall it could do it in one coat, or vice versa cover a bright red with white in one coat. I don't know of a paint that can do that. It's not really true one coat coverage if it only works on similar colors, it's just marketing BS.
 

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I get people in all the time asking for one coat paint. I tell them BM doesn't make any one coat paint and most companies that say they do are full of ****. Real True One Coat coverage would mean if you are painting a bright red over a white wall it could do it in one coat, or vice versa cover a bright red with white in one coat. I don't know of a paint that can do that. It's not really true one coat coverage if it only works on similar colors, it's just marketing BS.
Believe it or not, years before "Paint + Primer in One" My son's bedroom had deep red wall. He was into cars and had posters of red Ferraris. Kid grew up, time for a color change, wife picked a gray from Behr that claimed 1 coat coverage. I told her to buy enough for 2 coats. She said no, it says covers in one coat. I said impossible. I rolled those walls with the full knowledge I's roll another coat in a couple of hours. You know what... It covered. I couldn't believe it. I was shocked and she said "I told you so".
 

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Discussion Starter · #87 ·
I get people in all the time asking for one coat paint. I tell them BM doesn't make any one coat paint and most companies that say they do are full of ****. Real True One Coat coverage would mean if you are painting a bright red over a white wall it could do it in one coat, or vice versa cover a bright red with white in one coat. I don't know of a paint that can do that. It's not really true one coat coverage if it only works on similar colors, it's just marketing BS.
Yeah, I think it's a touchy issue. I still would never professionally bid any job as one coat unless it was over the same color just because regardless of the paint you use there's too many unknowns. At best if you do less coats you just give the HO a surprise discount. But from a homeowner/DIY perspective I really did appreciate the big bad Behr's "one coat" coverage. I had some bad Behr experiences though when I started in 2015 and took over a job someone left that the HO wanted me to "fix" so I think maybe that experience left a bad taste in my mouth about it. I still think I'd be hesitant if an HO wanted me to use it on trim unless it was the urethane alkyd or another one of their trim enamels, but on walls I'd 100% use it now.

One thing companies are doing now which is interesting for "one coat" guarantees is having a one coat color palette presumably where they can tweak stuff a bit to make it cover. I think Behr does it with Marquee but not Ultra now. PPG also does the same thing with a one coat color palette with Timeless. In this case though I actually tinted mine to BM "Smoke" going over Kittery Point Green (sorry for using BM colors in other brands, haha) and not a color like that.

I have to say from personal experience BM has given me the absolute most coverage issues over the years. I understand some of the arguments about graying out bases and that sort of thing, but it can be a bit absurd to be doing 4 coats for whites and yellows, especially with the price differences being what they are. I would say anecdotally I've actually had almost one coat coverage in deep base BM colors even in lines like Ben, etc, it's something where I think the Gennex shines, but the whites and yellows have always been universally mediocre coverage.

Believe it or not, years before "Paint + Primer in One" My son's bedroom had deep red wall. He was into cars and had posters of red Ferraris. Kid grew up, time for a color change, wife picked a gray from Behr that claimed 1 coat coverage. I told her to buy enough for 2 coats. She said no, it says covers in one coat. I said impossible. I rolled those walls with the full knowledge I's roll another coat in a couple of hours. You know what... It covered. I couldn't believe it. I was shocked and she said "I told you so".
Yeah, maybe Jack Pauhl was right after all. :unsure:

I dunno if I'd use it for everything but it went from the "horrible" camp to the "well, it's all right" camp for me personally. I'd much rather be brushing out something like Cashmere or Ben from a handling perspective, though. But it covers... somehow.
 

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Just rolled 3 metal garage doors and a front door with Command Satin. Stuff was really nice! An hour later was candy shell hard. Didn't even have to pull the weather stripping on front door as it blocked so quickly. Front door was a deep red and almost covered in 1 coat. Pretty darn impressive.
 

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Just did a full trim, cabinet, walls, ceiling job.
Cover stain primer on trim, cabinets
Scuff X satin top coat trim and cabinets
400 Flat on ceilings
Cashmere Low Luster on all walls.

This was my first time using Scuff X on cabinets and it was awesome. For sure going to be my go to as long as I can get it, had a few issues at my local stores getting enough in stock.

Cashmere has been my preferred wall paint for the last year or so, goes on like butter.
 
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