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The steady string of "What should I charge" questions and subsequent responses are not good for the site. They are of no use to anyone and usually turn into a bunch of sarcastic remarks and a pissed off and confused original poster.

A few weeks ago, Brian constructed a nice post about pricing questions that essentially spells out the views of some of the regulars on painttalk as well as exactly what numbers are included in any estimate. Nathan made this post a sticky. Brian's post, along with a few others by Pressure Pros (others? I'm not sure) is sitting there to be read at any time.

I think that, before one can post on painttalk, they should have to check a box that says they have read and understand all the stickys. They don't need to agree with them, just understand them. Now, when Mr. "What do I Charge" poses his question, he can be referred to this "user agreement" without the sarcasm. He can then ask more useful and educated questions that will help him arrive at his OWN number.

With a little restraint from the regulars and this user agreement, I think the result would be a better educated OP and a less aggravated group of regulars who could now spend their time pursuing more useful topics.

May be a litte idealistic but worth a shot?
 

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hehe :thumbup:

Good suggestion though, just made me laugh. I think some people just need a punchbag to let off steam now and again and there seems to be new ones arriving constantly lol
 

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hehe :thumbup:

Good suggestion though, just made me laugh. I think some people just need a punchbag to let off steam now and again and there seems to be new ones arriving constantly lol
AND, apparently some need to BE the punching bag.

Yup it's a good idea, but prolly impossible to implement. But what is very easy is that when these questions arise, the FIRST person to reply post a link to the sticky OR post the sticky in it's entireity, THEN if the dim rod (or is that nim wit) still persists, we open the gates and he will be facing a phalanx of war seasoned gladiators.
 

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AND, apparently some need to BE the punching bag.

Yup it's a good idea, but prolly impossible to implement. But what is very easy is that when these questions arise, the FIRST person to reply post a link to the sticky OR post the sticky in it's entireity, THEN if the dim rod (or is that nim wit) still persists, we open the gates and he will be facing a phalanx of war seasoned gladiators.
Thats interesting you mention phalanx, I was just pulling a rather large splinter out of one of the phalanxes on my left hand as I read your post. :blink:
 

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But what is very easy is that when these questions arise, the FIRST person to reply post a link to the sticky OR post the sticky in it's entireity, THEN if the dim rod (or is that nim wit) still persists, we open the gates and he will be facing a phalanx of war seasoned gladiators.
I think that's a more reasonable expectation. Of course, it will take self-control on the part of everyone, which isn't likely.

Perhaps the welcome page, or welcome email (I don't recall how signing up works) could direct the new person to some basic intro posts or even an intro page.

I can understand how someone discovers this wonderful site and no longer feels like an island in the middle of the ocean. Finally, he might think, people who understand. And so he asks what he thinks is an innocent question, only to get both barrels. For the new guy it seems unfair. For those who have been around a while, it's very old hat.

My point is, we have a much different context from the new guy. We should try to remember that. I'm not saying that beligerent attitudes should be tolerated, only that I think these questions are often asked in good faith. Sure, we get tired of answering them, but there might be a better and more effective way to do so. Point him in the right direction without being insulting.

Brian Phillips
 

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the post should goLike this:

CLICK HERE: FOR THE GOING RATE

then inside:

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A GOING RATE. NOW GO GET A JOB WITH A PROFESSIONAL UNTIL YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THAT. FEEL FREE TO ASK TECHNICAL AND PRODUCT QUESTIONS, BUT UNDER SO CiRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU USE THE WORDS PRICE, GOING RATE, OR HOW MUCH SHOULD I CHARGE. THAT IS ALL.

--the out of work painters of Painttalk.com


 

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I think that's a more reasonable expectation. Of course, it will take self-control on the part of everyone, which isn't likely.

Perhaps the welcome page, or welcome email (I don't recall how signing up works) could direct the new person to some basic intro posts or even an intro page.

I can understand how someone discovers this wonderful site and no longer feels like an island in the middle of the ocean. Finally, he might think, people who understand. And so he asks what he thinks is an innocent question, only to get both barrels. For the new guy it seems unfair. For those who have been around a while, it's very old hat.

My point is, we have a much different context from the new guy. We should try to remember that. I'm not saying that beligerent attitudes should be tolerated, only that I think these questions are often asked in good faith. Sure, we get tired of answering them, but there might be a better and more effective way to do so. Point him in the right direction without being insulting.

Brian Phillips
Let's say you were interested in doing some painting as side work, or were questioning a bid you got from a painter, or interested in starting your own biz. You go online, do a search and most keywords that people are going to use will give paint talk as the #1 search result. Therefore, newbies, wannabies, hacks and painters interested in starting a business are going to end up on paint talk and their 1st question is gonna be how do I price this. No matter how annoying it is to the people with established businesses who come here to talk about the issues that apply to their size business and experience level, it's not gonna stop. In fact, it will probably get worse. So, it may get tiring trying to fight them all off.
 

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Painttalk needs an entryway, like a foyer where new guests just arriving can sit and enjoy a cocktail until seating opens up in the ballroom. Like an acclimation space. Or maybe the regulars need to be locked in the basement. :jester:
 

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I have never asked a pricing question but do understand why someone new to the biz would. Estimates are tough sometimes. I have been estimating a while and am still lost on certain bids. Rather than attacking, even though you are sick of the question, explain to the guy how to figure a time frame and base his own numbers on that. This is an online site. There are tons of people who will stroll onto this site and some may need direction in starting their business. Be kind. You aren't gaining anything by attacking the guy other than getting a bunch of the other guys on this site to gang up on a guy that asked a simple question.

Do you really think anyone is being malicious when they ask a pricing question? You say that you're not a true professional when you ask, but do you guys feel like true professionals berating someone you don't know on a painter's blog? GROW UP.
 

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I think some people just believe there is a universal labor rate for painting, and other skilled trades for that matter. I do not know what the 'going rate' is for a heating and cooling guy, but then again I do not have experience as one, nor do I want to start a HVAC business. Everyone's monetary structure for each job is unique, and it should be. Otherwise Joe Blow's Painting will estimate each job similar to mine. It is not like my estimates go like this:

Um, I think it will take 30 hours, multiply that by the universally recognized painting labor rate and we get $...
 
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