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Best Primer Period?

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Discussion starter · #21 ·
Thanks everyone. I'm trying to simplify products this year by getting top quality staples and sticking with them. I'm thinking Coverstain and Peel Bond should have me pretty covered for my area. Thanks again, ton of great info. I look forward to my future here on painttalk.
 
#26 ·
You know, I have been reading some journal articles from the Forestry Service, plus watching my repaint cycles and I am losing confidence in oil for exterior siding. Too brittle and I think its penetrating capabilities may be over rated.

There is a cottage we did near Lake MI on Lake Macatawa that was originally done with solid oil Moorwood stain. It had tannin bleed and some surface cracking of the film. We painted it in 2008 with the oil. On the worst area, a bay window on the southside, we used a quart of the 089 Solid acrylic stain. In 2013 we did the cottage again. There was only tannin bleed on oil stain areas, not the acrylic. Of course acrylic had better color retention. Acrylic also did not exhibit surface cracking. This was a dark brown house.

On an other project, we had to work on an new home that was originally primed with slow dry oil primer (BM 100) and then the solid oil stain. It bled tannin, surface cracked, etc over very high quality cedar. In just a couple years. Finally switching to acrylic with XIM Bleed Control 100 to try that since oil was getting us nowhere on that one. This what a white house (Dutch Colonial style).

I have read a few journal articles from the Forestry service, and it sounds like oil primers really are not offering any benefit from reduced surface cracking and long term durability compared to all acrylic systems.

I have long been a believer in a slow dry (usually BM 094 lately or the discontinued 366 primer, sometimes 100) for raw wood on siding. But, I am beginning to doubt that approach. Seeing the test board on here about MadDog that had PeelBond, Coverstain, Maddog and another oil primer IIRC reminded me about this a couple weeks back.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Dean,

We gave up on solid color oil stains a while ago. Between the cracking and fading, they didn't have much to recommend them.

OTOH, for painting western red cedar, especially old WRC, we have not found anything to beat long oil.
 
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#28 ·
DeanV said:
You know, I have been reading some journal articles from the Forestry Service, plus watching my repaint cycles and I am losing confidence in oil for exterior siding. Too brittle and I think its penetrating capabilities may be over rated.

There is a cottage we did near Lake MI on Lake Macatawa that was originally done with solid oil Moorwood stain. It had tannin bleed and some surface cracking of the film. We painted it in 2008 with the oil. On the worst area, a bay window on the southside, we used a quart of the 089 Solid acrylic stain. In 2013 we did the cottage again. There was only tannin bleed on oil stain areas, not the acrylic. Of course acrylic had better color retention. Acrylic also did not exhibit surface cracking. This was a dark brown house.

On an other project, we had to work on an new home that was originally primed with slow dry oil primer (BM 100) and then the solid oil stain. It bled tannin, surface cracked, etc over very high quality cedar. In just a couple years. Finally switching to acrylic with XIM Bleed Control 100 to try that since oil was getting us nowhere on that one. This what a white house (Dutch Colonial style).

I have read a few journal articles from the Forestry service, and it sounds like oil primers really are not offering any benefit from reduced surface cracking and long term durability compared to all acrylic systems.

I have long been a believer in a slow dry (usually BM 094 lately or the discontinued 366 primer, sometimes 100) for raw wood on siding. But, I am beginning to doubt that approach. Seeing the test board on here about MadDog that had PeelBond, Coverstain, Maddog and another oil primer IIRC reminded me about this a couple weeks back.
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I used to swear by Calif Universal primer that advertised "Linseed Oil", and in later years with acrylic over it.

But lo and behold, linseed DOES feed mold and mildew.

You are right Dean, acrylic systems have progressed greatly in the past 20 years. And the castration of oil paints makes them even more susceptible to early failure.
 
#31 ·
Honestly, you probably dint need to prime. Two coats of Aura Ext, even over bare wood, covers and sticks like crazy. Goes without saying you need to back-brush, but I said it anyway.
 
#32 ·
Dean and I Paint Paint, thanks for catching my typos.

As the Forest Products Lab's articles point out, oil may still be the better choice for bleed-prone woods, like redwood and red cedar. Since that's about the only wood siding that we see here and since we rarely have mildew problems, long oil is still our exterior primer of choice.
 
#34 ·
On an exterior we just did, the interior guys did the new cedar exterior railings. Two coats woodscapes waterbase. No tannin bleed and they look great. I had priced for 1 oil prime plus 2 finish coats.
 
#36 ·
Rbriggs82 said:
I don't do much cedar, but when I do I use woodscapes.

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Around here, just about anything built before 1970 is clad with Western Red Cedar and painted. Repainted well, it holds paint like stink.

The newer cedar-clad homes are mostly stained, and that works well. Mostly it works well because the siding is rough cut, not planed. Also, most of the siding is junk, since the price for Clear VG Heart has gone through the roof.
 
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#37 ·
Gough said:
View attachment 52154


Around here, just about anything built before 1970 is clad with Western Red Cedar and painted. Repainted well, it holds paint like stink.

The newer cedar-clad homes are mostly stained, and that works well. Mostly it works well because the siding is rough cut, not planed. Also, most of the siding is junk, since the price for Clear VG Heart has gone through the roof.
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Oh yea, if it's been painted and re-painted before then I'd stick with it. Starting fresh I think woodscapes is the ticket, plus it saves a coat of primer which is an added benefit.
 
#38 · (Edited)
Spot prime the rusty nails with a rattle can of red oxide rust block primer. Use Sherwin williams Multi purpose primer and apply to proper coverage, so what if you get some tannin bleed it only matters if you have a light color and its bleeding through. You can spot prime. Keep it simple.
 
#39 · (Edited)
Very interesting Dean, thanks for the info. What is this test board you speak of with Maddog Peel Bond and cover stain? Link?

So speaking of acrylic primers, these are ones in my market to consider:
1. Bullseye 123 - $17.60/g in a 5g from HD or $14.99/g in a 2g. WTF?
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Zinsser-...-2-3-5-gal-White-Water-Based-Interior-Exterior-Primer-and-Sealer-2000/100398392
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Zinsser-...-3-2-gal-White-Water-Based-Interior-Exterior-Primer-and-Sealer-259115/202713102
2. SW Quick dry latex - $12.95
3. SW Multipurpose - $27.99
4. SW Wood Primer - $28.95

What would you use for spot priming, what would you use for new raw wood? Not considering tannin bleed issues. What are the real differences in those SW products?
 
#40 · (Edited)
Is there a good stain alternative (PPG, BM, Sansin) for the woodscapes stain?

Oh and maybe Woodford can help me there concerning BM Freshstart primers :

There are two alkyd exterior primers that seem to do more or less the same thing, what makes the two products different and what are their preferable applications ?

Fresh Start Exterior wood primer 094
Fresh Start Moorwhite Exterior Wood Primer 100

The 094 is fast drying and recommended for cedar and redwood.
The 100 is slow drying and recommended here for the same use.
 
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