[Lightningboy65]

This ties right in with beating out the illegals. Your selling a lexus with 2 shiny coats of finish, they have the used corrola with 1 coat of cheap paint on it.

The problem is the illegals who give 2 shiny coats of finish plus a hand rubbed 3 coat wax job, and are still at half the price as above board companies! Not all illegals do crappy work, I've seen some pretty good work by guys I'm pretty sure had no legal standing in this country. But the fact they are not paying taxes and insurance makes it hard to compete with them. It won't stop until those hiring them refuse to do so...which will be never.:sad:

 

[Lightningboy65]

Is there test data comparing longevity of exterior wood two 3 mil coats dried between compared to a board with a single 6 mil wet coat? I've asked this a few times, and never got an answer...

Your question piqued my interest, and I spent a while searching online and could find nothing of the sorts. I couldn't even find anything on just plain old one coat vs. two. There must be something on the subject buried deep in the innerwebs, but I couldn't find it.:sad:

Common sense and experience leaves me no doubt a two coat job will significantly outlast a one coat job, but I have no empirical data to back that up. I know two coats will always look better.

 

[Lightningboy65]

I've never heard of anyone selling their services by saying that they use "cheap, illegal help- AND PASS THE SAVINGS ON TO YOU!" That's just not gonna happen, I think. I think in most cases they are charging as much or more than the next guy and the one thing that might set them apart is that they might do a job faster (with more workers).

I would say in many cases you're spot on. But there are many instances where the illegals work significantly cheaper. Especially when they are the contractor, not just the labor. Point in case is the guy in CO that paints for my sister and her friends. The guy has been in their area for years, him and two other illegals, does excellent work (in million $+ homes), and charges about half price. Plenty like him around the country.

 

[Lightningboy65]

Just finished up at a side job after work and the siding is all the old style asbestos. It was a color change. Using regal select low lusture. Looked great after one coat but we did a 2nd bc I have always done a second coat and it is peace of mind that you did the job to meet a spec. Just do your 2nd and be done with it. Even if you have a few missed spots or sheen inconsistency it wasn't worth quoting them 1 coat and then using your time and not getting paid to fix it.


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Always two coat the old asbestos. I've seen it look great with one coat and then quickly fade out within a year if you don't second coat.

 

[Lightningboy65]

In a lot of cases (and I mean in many businesses- not just painting) you get your whole family involved and they are working cheap- if not just for room and board. Hard to compete with that when you and your help have so many real world bills to pay.

Main reason the Amish can underbid just about anybody. Not because of the old "they don't pay taxes" line. And many people believe that. They pay the same taxes as others, with the exception of FICA taxes. They don't participate in Medicare or Social Security, so they don't pay FICA. But at least they are paying all other taxes, unlike most illegals doing contract work.

 

[Lightningboy65]

You got any good scrapple in your neck of the woods? It's getting hard to find in these parts.

https://www.countrystoremeats.com/

This is some of the best I've ever had. I've been eating it since I was a kid. For $20.00 flat rate they ship, if you can't find it in OH.

 

[Lightningboy65]

Thanks! I may have to give them a try. Someone told me a vendor at the Hartville flea market had it so maybe i can get some next week. All the local Amish & farm markets can't sell it anymore because of the damn state of Ohio.

I've had some good stuff from the local Amish, but none any better than the Country store stuff....they are big enough to be consistent, but small enough to still care about producing a top notch product. Their ring bologna is right at the top too.

 

[Lightningboy65]

So, how does this relate to the thread? I'm not getting the inside joke.

Because in order to put on two coats, one needs a good breakfast.:glasses:

 

[Lightningboy65]

The US Forestry Service has details studies on this. They give analysis of how long wood was exposed without protection, long term success on one versus two coats on different species of wood in different parts of the country. Paint companies do extensive exterior testing however they start with a new surface not a re-coat of existing systems. It’s not an easy study to find but it is available. Includes both paint and stains oil and latex.

I found a USFS study that rated different species of lumber and their ability to hold paint, but none that offered a one coat vs. two component.

 

[Lightningboy65]

Is this enough scrapple for you? https://www.best-price.com/search/l...=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Amazon&utm_term=scrapple&utm_content=scrapple

Looks like dog food and or Spam!

That looks like something someone from Chi-town would say!:biggrin:

There is plenty of scrapple out there to be had....but precious little good scrapple. It's one of those things that is I have to explain it to you, you just wouldn't understand.

 

[Lightningboy65]

a piece of cheek meat! Boy that was some damn good eatin'! Best meat on the planet! Screw that Japanese beef crap!

Truer words have never graced these pages!!! Amen.

 

[Lightningboy65]

Once you've had it, you know!

If you're ever at a pig roast, that is the first thing to go for. Those in the know, know.:vs_OMG:

 

[Lightningboy65]

Guanciale is Italian bacon made from the cheek and jowl . And it is , of course, delicious.

 

[Lightningboy65]

However, it did provide a lot of laughs when everyone was half in the bag and us guys took turns chasing the girls around with the head!

Better be careful, in some cultures you're considered married after pursuing a female with a pig's head!:surprise:

 

[Lightningboy65]

Your post said two coats of 3mil dry, but semantics aside, PAC gave a better reason for two coats. I don't think you can go off of your common statement, as who can say what a light coat is vs a heavy coat? Really a coat of paint is a coat of paint regardless how thick the product is or how you apply it.

I realize many on PaintTalk may not deal with projects that involve mil spec inspections, those that do realize a coat of paint is not a coat of paint. If working a mil spec job, you had better be certain you are putting it on thick enough.

And not only to pass inspection. Some coatings, elastomerics for example, will not perform as they should if millage is not high enough. And I feel a thicker coat, in most cases, is superior to a thinner coat. No data to back that one up, just my gut feeling.

Dip it to the chrome, and put it on like you're not payin' for it. Because you're not payin for it. If you did your estimating right, the customer is!

 

[Lightningboy65]

This makes total sense to me.

And to understand correctly, Woodco is asking what affect the same time line and exposure has on two different boards that were painted with an identical coating system with identical total Dry Film Thickness. But, with the exception that one board had a single Wet Film Thickness application compared to the other board that had two separate WFT applications with appropriate dry times in between.

What makes the difference in the two applications is that the single WFT may have had it's full film formation compromised due to solvent entrapment compared to the two coat WFT application recommended by the manufacturer's TDS.

For example, trying to push a coating's recommended WFT, can result in a "cake" phenomena where the shell cures to a relatively hard surface, but leaves the middle a little soft. Obviously, the designed performance of a coating in this condition has been compromised. Unfortunately, this is all at a molecular level that is hardly recognized by a painter who simply rubs their paw over a dried painted surface.

Or it could be that the cross linking properties between the two coats ,in the total film thickness, are compromised by applying the film in two coats. Any supposition without a controlled scientific test is merely just that, supposition. And it appears for reasons unknown, these test results, should they exist, are a closely guarded secret. Perhaps we should employ the Russians to dig them up.

For the record, I feel two thinner coats are better. Unfortunately I have no empirical data to back up my hypothesis.:glasses:

 

[Lightningboy65]

Single component paint films cure by coalescence (evaporation of solvents) rather than by chemical crosslinking that typically occurs with two component coatings.

For single component waterborne coatings, adhesion of subsequent coats of paint rely on penetration into the micro-perforated film matrix of the first, provided that most if not all of the first coat solvents have evaporated.

Many of the newer latex coatings employ crosslink technology - at least that's what the labels claim. Duration and Valspar Hi-Def are two that come to mind.

And who's to say the bond of the second coat to the micro-perforated film matrix of the first is better than having only one thicker coat where that bond interface is non existent? If testing has been done, the results are not readily available.

 

[Lightningboy65]

But to your second point, and generally speaking, the science of thermoplastic film formation requires that the vehicle solvents fully evaporate during coalescing. What we read in the product TDS, in terms of WFT and DFT, and recoat times, are the results of Lab testing that provided the best performance outcomes from the coating.

I have a feeling this is generally true, and for this reason have
always personally held to the personal practice of two thinner coats.

As to this lab testing you speak of ...where are these studies and the resulting data??? I have found it virtually impossible to track down the actual lab tests, and more importantly the empirical data???

 

[Lightningboy65]

But to your second point, and generally speaking, the science of thermoplastic film formation requires that the vehicle solvents fully evaporate during coalescing. What we read in the product TDS, in terms of WFT and DFT, and recoat times, are the results of Lab testing that provided the best performance outcomes from the coating. It also provides a guide line for recourse if there were a failure to occur.

Since traditional latex paints do not involve thermosetting mechanisms, and rely on evaporation to cure, this really wouldn't apply to traditional latex house paint.

Well ,the solvents would need to be fully evaporated, but thermoplastics has nothing to do with it.

 

[Lightningboy65]

It's true, and often lamented by painters, that controlled environment testing doesn't represent real world conditions. But I suppose there needs to be a level of trust involved in laboratory testing. For example, airstream testing over the wings of a Boing 757 hopefully provide a pretty good idea of what will occur at 30,000 ft.

Agreed, but it would be nice to see the actual test outcomes.:sad: