You're going broke off of their mistake(s), but it's not clear if you should write them up?

Write them up!

 

Cut them loose and hire/train better painters.

 

Make's sense.... little jaded hiring in....work out of house, so not comfortable with a high turn over rate, AND had a supremely bad incident with an employee previously this year. Which is the reason for the "just good enough" to not make it a clear cut, write them up until they fire them self... Was trying to think of a better way around ... possibly piece rate...job is this worth this much for you.....but you don't get paid until its done to my & customer's satisfaction.... ? Anybody pay their painters by piece rate?...like roofers?...

This person, that has the touch up, is also a good carpenter... has always said, he's not a painter. But that was the position. I'm not busy enough for a Full Time Carpenter AND a Full Time Painter. In past years, with no carpenter acquaintances or employees, I'd tell a home owner to get that fixed first before I come paint. Adding this carpentry skill has been beneficial in the all inclusive factor on jobs. Good enough to get the jobs to a pinch away from perfect...yet will have a good 4 -8 hours of touch up and not do it all in one day or not notice it, causing it to linger and cost me more... un-doubtedly if he returns a next day i'm out 3 hours with drive time etc... when it should be a half hour ordeal the day before.

 

Make's sense.... little jaded hiring in....work out of house, so not comfortable with a high turn over rate, AND had a supremely bad incident with an employee previously this year. Which is the reason for the "just good enough" to not make it a clear cut, write them up until they fire them self... Was trying to think of a better way around ... possibly piece rate...job is this worth this much for you.....but you don't get paid until its done to my & customer's satisfaction.... ? Anybody pay their painters by piece rate?...like roofers?...

We tried a piecework system...very briefly. I haven't seen anything that resulted in a quicker "race to the bottom". Guys trying to cut every corner to knock it out in the fastest way possible, no attention to detail, no attention to quality...no thanks.

 

I know some pressure washers and window cleaners pay on commision, same theory and it works great for them, any touch up is covered in the commision so your bottom line is still the same. And this is not 1099 stuff. In order for it to work you have to be a getting a good price for the job, if the jobs are loosers no way are you going to keep guys happy.

 

I don't know where you're located but I can't pay piece rate in California.

If I were you I would type up a company handbook if you don't have one, take him out to lunch and talk to him. Tell him what you expect overall. Tell him where he has fallen short for the last few jobs. Tell him you are going to write him up once total for all of the mistakes over the last few weeks, but in the future he will get written up once for each incident. If he is that valuable to you maybe implement an incentive program if you think it will help. Just something simple- every quarter, if all of his jobs are completed without go-backs he gets some sort of bonus. Money, sports tickets, movie tickets, gift card, whatever.

 

Yes...we've spoke about a hand book over the years.... and it really does just come down to doing it, time consuming and really hard to get in the seat to do it...but it would have something added to it daily hahaha Approaching 10 years in business.....last 5 years getting away from doing the work myself and having employees do it. It has not been an easy transition when you are soooooo use to controlling your own job.

Appreciate this insight.

 

You mentioned paying him a "fair hourly wage"; fair for him maybe, but is it fair for you? Consider cutting his hours a bit, or dropping wage a little. Often times the point one is trying to make doesn't get through until it stings a little bit!

 

He's not a painter……..you will spend countless hours spinning your wheels training him to be a painter, but, he will never be a painter. He is a CARPENTER. His level of patience is very low and unfortunately to be a really good painter, patience is crucial. The only way I see your particular arrangement working is for you to have enough carpentry/repair work to keep him busy (and happy) and for you to do the painting. I know that's an extremely wide range of jobs to be seeking, but, to me, that's the only way it's going to be profitable.

 

I've had problems here too. I think a detailed, clear handbook would be best. We fired our only employee this year and now we are facing paying his unemployment because our reason for letting him go wasn't "a known company policy." Doesn't matter if you tell them a hundred times, it has to be written down somewhere you can prove they saw.

So, one of our winter projects is to make an employee handbook and make any new hire sign that sucker. My question to you wise old business owners is: what are some things you wish you would have had in your handbooks from day one?

 

The amount of pay they get is actually fixed for our guys, if they go back they pay themselves to do it.
But it is more complicated than that.
If quality is 'built in" with company culture there shouldn't be many of these issues.
The job manager does a walk through
The Operation's Manager visits often
Then there is the walk-through with the customer.
If something makes it through...
It is not the painter's fault.

 

How do you handle that George? And are they employees or subs? Just curious, I'm small potatoes now but eventually I will be able to expand and want to make sure I'm looking at, and understand, all of my options.

 

I am not sure we cannot legally have painters go back and fix something without paying them however.

 

Thats a good way to have morale go into the pooper.

 

Whoops, double negative in my post. Anyway, I do not think labor laws in US would allow us to send an employee back and not pay them. I realize that Canada is different though and piece work/fixed compensation like GeorgeZ has makes things different as well.

 

We do not pay piecework, never have. It is hourly pay.
The labour laws are actually stricter here by the way.
Think of it as: building up a bonus amount per job.
It is all theirs, or it lessens if more hours are used on the job (with a call-back).

There are almost no call-backs and we have not fired anyone for years.

 

I use a bonusing system as well. Crews have a job par for the week. Once they go over that, they start getting a bonus accrual (paid once per month).

This system promotes speed but can backfire on quality control. To counteract that, callbacks are billed against the bonus at $50 man/hr. That's not quite my full billing rate but I am losing money when a crew that could be earning is fixing mistakes instead of doing new work.

You have to lower your standard pay per hour but I have found it weeds out those guys that just cannot perform and rewards those that can. Even during the hiring process when this is explained I can see by their reaction who goes through the motions and who has superstar potential.

 

Carpenters make crappy painters because they're used to having someone cover up their work.
They don't have the "final result" frame of mind...can that be taught?

hell if I know.

 

"He's not a Painter". He knows it. We know it. Now you know it.

 

At Hines Painting --->Why can't you pay piece rate in CA?.... I believe we can pay piece rate here, however, still have to log their hours and pay the applicable Labor & Industry Rates per hour.

 

California looks at peice work like subcontractors, you need to be licensed to be a subcontractor.

 

I am sure that there are companies that pay piecework here.
We just don't. I don't believe in it myself.

 

Ken's system sounds similar though.

 

Bonus program would work like this when I did way back.

Job allow 50 hrs, guys do it in 40 hrs, that's 10 bonus hrs, now that doesnt get paid right away it goes into a kitty so now you have 10 bonus hours in a kitty and if their is any touch up hours reqried the pay comes out of the bonus kitty. You may have 10 jobs done before you ever pay out of the bonus kitty.

You pay on your bonus on a set period of time I think quarterly or something along those lines work out.


You have to have a really good understanding on production rates, for this to work. And as Ken said it weeds out the slackers quickly.

You also have checks in place in case something goes wrong you can idntify whear it went wrong, it all comes down to a very technical brake down on the estimate,

 

As an employee, I may touch something up once or twice without pay, and I have for very good contractors I've worked for. Especially if it was egregious. But considering how critical homeowners can be, I would never allow an employer to make it company policy to have me work for free when ever they were called up for a touch up.

Touch ups are part of the job. And when they don't occur, Bully for you!

 

My old boss had a great system for this. We were paid piece work (per unit) but still reported our hours. Paycheck was base hourly rate x hours worked and any extra owed was called a bonus. The total was always based on work completed and you fixed your own mistakes and got no extra money. It's just an accounting gimmick for W2 employees.

 

I like the idea of the bonus system.

Bonus system or not if your having issues on a regular basis with your employees, the problem is not with them it is in your communication with them. It is really simple!

 

And I'll add that its not a quick process to get a license.

 

If touch ups are causing you to go broke on jobs you may have bigger issues that need attention.