I would only use acrylic on MDF. But I hear Styks(sp) by insulx is a good product.

Honestly, I'd stick to BIN.

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Looks like this might be the best idea.

 

GF is supposed to have a good primer. never used it though
https://generalfinishes.com/wood-finishes-retail/water-based-primer/stain-blocker

 

Latex wood undercoater from PPG, Fresh Start, XIM UMA, STIX,

All good for any raw wood that doesnt have tannin bleed issues.

 

If your burning through the finish at all, I'd be concerned about bleeding from the tannins or stain. I've switched from Stix to BIN because I now like to burn through the finish, especially on edges and corners for better adhesion.
However still using Stix (brush and roll) in home on the boxes as they don't get the same treatment as the doors. I cannot for the life of me get Stix to stop Fisheyeing on me when I spray it. Pretty much done with it.

 

FISHeye STIX!



We had a bad batch in December of stix, from what I used it seemed to be one particular batch, maybe that is not the case. It is a great product between the fisheyes.:biggrin:

 

You might try the InslX product from Benjamin Moore called AquaLock Plus.

https://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us...ore.com/en-us/interior-exterior-paints-stains/product-catalog/ip/insl-x-primers

 

PPG Seal Grip Gripper is a good primer to use on existing cabinets. It bonds and blocks stains (after 24 hours).

 

SEALGRIP is a fine primer, but it sucks for tannin bleed and doesn't sand very well.

All in on the BIN, but coverstain will work in a pinch. BIN smells to high heaven for an hour, Coverstain is going to smell for at least a day.

 

Seal grip also has an oil base thats comparable to coverstain and it sands great.

 

Go ahead and experiment with zinsser 123 "plus"

 

I haven't tried this yet but am curious.. How's the adhesion, compared to Stix, and does it really block Tannin Bleed? Stix been letting me down lately..

 

Renner is having great success and lots of people are loving their cabinet coatings

 

Zinsser smart prime looks promising but I have yet to try it.

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Weird it sounds exactly like the 123 plus..

 

Aqua Lock is also working well in cabinet shops for me. Sands easier that Stix.

 

But hows the adhesion compared to stix? And the covering power? I haven't found a water based primer yet, that can stick like Stix. Yet, it doens't cover that well and doesn't stop tannin bleed, so still on the hunt.
It's all sbout the adhesion on a repaint.

 

Id also recommended Stix..pretty impressive adhesion for a water based.
It won't sand like bin or oil based stuff, but if your goal is to get away from those primers then stix is way id go

 

I would second the vote for zinsser smart prime. Did 5 or 6 cabinet sets last year and no issues. One was oak and had major tannin bleed with aqua lock. Re-primed with smart prime and no bleed. I also agree with Kevyn about stix, fisheyes on me every time i spray.

 

Stix has fish eyed on us too, but after a sand, it is fine. It doesn't block stains at all. Aqualock I use all the time too, but have to say I think its blocking capability is marginal, even when allowed to sit overnight. It has great adhesion, and generally whatever it doesn't hold back could be spot primed with BIN. I like it better than Bullseye 123. I think Bulleye is too watery. The Aqualock has a little more body, so it also helps to fill a little better than Bullseye.

 

We’ve also had a lot of fish eye with Stix. We typically do 2 prime and 2 finish coats on cabinets. Spray doors and drawers in the shop. Do the boxes by hand fine finish roller. Typically the fish eyes disappear once into the finish coats but are planning on trying UMA on next job to see if less fish eye. Have tried multiple prep options to eliminate fish eye and Stix seems to be the common denominator. I think it has better adhesion than smart prime. Not as confident in smart prime going over old lacquer cabs. Also Found the synthetic shellac to gum up too much in sanding.

 

Was starting to think I was going crazy. And I'm sorry, but sanding out fisheyes is not an option. Those suckers are deep.! I've also tryed spraying Stix with HVLP, but it drys so fast that it blows chunks all over your finish which isn't good either. Although, if you backroll the Stix, it will eliminate the fisheye, but will have a texture. I started spraying BIN from an HVLP setup in the shop only on doors. So controlled, you can put on 1 super even coat.

 

This may be a bit off topic but does anybody else spray the boxes on site? Seems like most of you guys prefer rolling. I have been spraying on site, and like the results but it is definitely a lot of work masking off to spray spray in the kitchen. I was thinking of maybe trying a foam roller or short nap shatter-resistant on my next job instead of spraying (boxes only)

 

I totally agree. It depends on the kitchen for me. If I'm just doing the cabs, (AKA No Ceilings or trims etc) and it's a simple kitchen, brushing and rolling is way more efficent and less stressful. It also frees up my sprayer for the shop work..
If it's a huge reno, like the one I just did. (posted pics btw) where were tearing out all the backsplash and repainting everything. It's more worth it. Then While I'm spraying the cabs, I'll also spray the crowns and wainscoting etc. Sometimes I'll try to remove end panels and bring back to the shop also..

 

Back with some hillbilly lab testing. Here is two coats of zinsser 123 plus followed by one coat of stock white cabinet coat over some old chip board with an ink stamp. It's not really Yellow, just the lighting.

 

You might need some grain filler on that one mug..:wink:

 

Zinsser smart prime is my go to

 

I thought I read somewhere that the majority of tannins are water soluble, which is why a solvent based primer is preferred...

 

Confirmed with the wonderful scientists at Rustoleum in an email.
Zinsser 123 plus is the same as zinsser smart prime.
123 plus is at box stores
Smart Prime is at specialty stores
One of those label things!

 

That's crazy, no wonder I couldn't find it anywhere!

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I've had considerable success with MLC's Agualente wb primer / undercoater. Spray only. Very fast dry. Easy sand. Doesn't raise grain on MDF like most other wb primers do. It's been a while since I used it and just had a look at their site and it doesn't look like they make it anymore, but make a product called Agualente Plus now instead - I would assume it's their new version of the same product.

I never cared much for the higher build acrylic primers the paint stores sell to use on cabinetry (aqualock, for instance). I found they never really adhered to clear finishes to my liking. Though i'm sure they're fine for most other applications.

 

Well, I just did my first sample with Aqua Lock. It was stuck on there good after drying overnight. I was able to sand it to a powder 3 hours after spraying.

Tannins did bleed through the Aqua Lock, but so far nothing is coming through the finish. Maybe they're "locked" in....

 

I was able to sand it to a powder 3 hours after spraying.

That's another reason I never cared much for those types of primers. The long dry to sand times.

Tannin bleed? You shooting raw wood?

 

Bin's Shellac

 

Too brittle. Not water based.

 

Not sure what type of wood it was, actually. Some scraps from an old basement shelf. Raw, yes, but that's all I know.

I also did some old cabinet doors. It only had issues where the hinges were. Could be I didn't clean them well enough.