[cdaniels]

I got a call yesterday about fixing some cabinet doors made of MDF built back in the 90's..... edges were rough as a corncob

 

[TERRY365PAINTER]

Use stix and be done with it . There is no way I would spray lacquer in a residential setting .
I love the results of lacquer under coater , but really hard to sell here in green conscious Austin tx . Stix levels nice and sands really great .

 

[HJ61]

Use stix and be done with it . There is no way I would spray lacquer in a residential setting .
I love the results of lacquer under coater , but really hard to sell here in green conscious Austin tx . Stix levels nice and sands really great .

What spray rig are you using? I did 8000 lin' of trim last year with Stix and it seemed to plug up my graco 490 pretty good. Still functioned but did not push enough product until a really good cleaning with Laquer thinner. It levels like crazy for an acrylic product though, even when rolled on cabinets.

 

[Rcon]

First off, anywhere I can get away with using a latex primer, I will.
However on most bare woods, I still prefer an oil primer.
Now seeing as MDF doesn't have tannins of knots, I can see a latex primer as fine..
On another note, (which actually stumped me) was a contractor mentioned how an oil primer on MDF would cause a reaction with the chemicals in it. Has anyone heard of this?..

I wouldn't use latex or oil on MDF.

Oil stinks and dries slowly - latex swells the mdf and is difficult to sand. I've seen oil swell mdf as well and leave a nasty mess.

What's your application method? If you're brushing or rolling you're kinda limited.

 

[cdaniels]

I wouldn't use latex or oil on MDF.

Oil stinks and dries slowly - latex swells the mdf and is difficult to sand. I've seen oil swell mdf as well and leave a nasty mess.

What's your application method? If you're brushing or rolling you're kinda limited.

Well....what do you use? Lacquer I guess?

 

[Rcon]

Well....what do you use? Lacquer I guess?

Not lacquer but a WB primer undercoater. My goto would be MLC but most manufacturers (chemcraft, general finishes, target, fuhr etc) would have a similar product. Have to spray it though.

 

[Xmark]

Not lacquer but a WB primer undercoater. My goto would be MLC but most manufacturers (chemcraft, general finishes, target, fuhr etc) would have a similar product. Have to spray it though.

Do you trust these wb undercoaters to stick to old poly and nitrocellulose lacquer finishes? what do you use for old cabinets?

 

[Rcon]

Do you trust these wb undercoaters to stick to old poly and nitrocellulose lacquer finishes? what do you use for old cabinets?

When I did cabinet redo's i'd only use the undercoaters - never alkyd or acrylic primers. They stick better, dry faster and sand easier. They work better on raw wood of course, but for old cabs they still work better than the alternatives.

 

[Custom Brush Co.]

Do you trust these wb undercoaters to stick to old poly and nitrocellulose lacquer finishes? what do you use for old cabinets?

Another reason I turn to PPG Breakthrough... All you have to do is whipe down with lacquer thinner, then hand or machine sand to an even buff sand. If some goes to bare wood, no problem... You just need a perfectly smoothed edge. After removing dust with vac then damp micro-fiber cloth, then simply apply 2-3 coats of the PPG Breakthrough. It can be brushed, rolled, sprayed and it sands really good between coats using a 320 grit sand pad.

The bond is amazing!

Probably not the easiest product to work with so practice at home! It dries so fast though... However it's self priming, therefore it makes you money when you are good at applying it.

 

[Xmark]

The coating has to be a tough enamel when used for cabinets.i doubt that ppg breakthrough is as hard as a wb lacquer.that said, i'll try it out on some doors and other trim.i'm a big fan of the pitt manor hall for walls and the pitt kitchen and bath semi-gloss for trim & doors.

 

[Xmark]

Another reason I turn to PPG Breakthrough... All you have to do is whipe down with lacquer thinner, then hand or machine sand to an even buff sand. If some goes to bare wood, no problem... You just need a perfectly smoothed edge. After removing dust with vac then damp micro-fiber cloth, then simply apply 2-3 coats of the PPG Breakthrough. It can be brushed, rolled, sprayed and it sands really good between coats a 320 grit sand pad.

The bond is amazing!

Probably not the easiest product to work with so practice at home! It dries so fast though... However it's self priming, therefore it makes you money when you are good at applying it.

here's a differing opinion from Damon T on 07-31-2011, 01:29 PM

Re: Any Updates On PPG Break Through?


"I wish I would have read your other post more carefully, I hadn't realized Easy Sand was part of the problem! It was a big PITA for us too, way too much cleanup after sand, and too porous. The PPG break through was a huge hassle too! The overspray created tons of dryfall which blew around and made a mess. Never again for either of them! I tested the PPG on a couple doors and trim first, and looked ok, but on a larger scale it was too messy.
Another expensive learning experience I suppose!"

 

[mudbone]

When I did cabinet redo's i'd only use the undercoaters - never alkyd or acrylic primers. They stick better, dry faster and sand easier. They work better on raw wood of course, but for old cabs they still work better than the alternatives.

Are you joking?:blink::whistling2:

 

[Rcon]

Are you joking?:blink::whistling2:

No i'm not.

 

[Custom Brush Co.]

here's a differing opinion from Damon T on 07-31-2011, 01:29 PM

Re: Any Updates On PPG Break Through?

"I wish I would have read your other post more carefully, I hadn't realized Easy Sand was part of the problem! It was a big PITA for us too, way too much cleanup after sand, and too porous. The PPG break through was a huge hassle too! The overspray created tons of dryfall which blew around and made a mess. Never again for either of them! I tested the PPG on a couple doors and trim first, and looked ok, but on a larger scale it was too messy.
Another expensive learning experience I suppose!"

Interesting!! I've used it at least 10 times for cabinets & trim. Brushed, rolled & sprayed. It isn't good to spray on anything you want to keep as with probably all enamels... I use 4x8 sheets of cardboard on the floor & zip walls with .7 mil plastic.

 

[Custom Brush Co.]

The coating has to be a tough enamel when used for cabinets.i doubt that ppg breakthrough is as hard as a wb lacquer.that said, i'll try it out on some doors and other trim.i'm a big fan of the pitt manor hall for walls and the pitt kitchen and bath semi-gloss for trim & doors.

You'd be very surprised at how hard the finish is. So hard I shy away from priming cause it's a better primer on it's own. I'd be curious what you think with some tests.

 

[Damon T]

here's a differing opinion from Damon T on 07-31-2011, 01:29 PM

Re: Any Updates On PPG Break Through?

"I wish I would have read your other post more carefully, I hadn't realized Easy Sand was part of the problem! It was a big PITA for us too, way too much cleanup after sand, and too porous. The PPG break through was a huge hassle too! The overspray created tons of dryfall which blew around and made a mess. Never again for either of them! I tested the PPG on a couple doors and trim first, and looked ok, but on a larger scale it was too messy.
Another expensive learning experience I suppose!"

I've since used it with success. I think part of our initial problem was high temps inside and the guys may have been turning up the pump too much and over-atomizing it. I am still interested in using it again. I am tending to lean more towards Insl-x cabinet coat because it has a longer recoat time. Similar adhesion with maybe a better chance at leveling out. I did shoot 49 exterior condo doors in Breakthrough satin black last summer, and once I figured out how to deal with the direct sun (blocked with tarps etc) it came out amazing. Was out there today doing an interior and had to admire my work ;-)
Custom Brush uses it a lot and I think once you get the learning curve down its a very viable finish.

 

[TERRY365PAINTER]

So with breakthrough in general , lets say cabinets in general repaint . Breakthrough would work pretty good with doing doors both sides in a day . How is the finish compared to advance ?
Also would it be advisable to add extender to it in warmer temps ?
Just wondering been wanting to try it for awhile now .

 

[Damon T]

So with breakthrough in general , lets say cabinets in general repaint . Breakthrough would work pretty good with doing doors both sides in a day . How is the finish compared to advance ?
Also would it be advisable to add extender to it in warmer temps ?
Just wondering been wanting to try it for awhile now .

The ppg tech dept said not to thin it with extender, even though ppg sells its own extender. They said only thin it with water. It develops blocking resistance quickly, more so than Advance, which can stay sticky longer. I recently did some cabs and shelves with advance, and several days later the client put books on the shelves, and the heavier ones started to stick to the shelves. The TDS for breakthrough says you can drive a forklift over it the next day.

I typically try to shoot my cab doors hanging so I can do both sides at once, so I don't know about how quickly you can flip if shooting flat. I think Custom shoots them flat, so maybe he can chime in here.

The satin finish is similar sheen to advance satin, maybe a little bit lower. Definitely a nice sheen IMO. I haven't used their gloss breakthrough yet, though I think it's sheen rating is similar to the advance semi gloss. The advance gloss is one of the highest rated gloss finishes I have found. Something like 85 degrees or so if I remember right.

 

[Custom Brush Co.]

The ppg tech dept said not to thin it with extender, even though ppg sells its own extender. They said only thin it with water. It develops blocking resistance quickly, more so than Advance, which can stay sticky longer. I recently did some cabs and shelves with advance, and several days later the client put books on the shelves, and the heavier ones started to stick to the shelves. The TDS for breakthrough says you can drive a forklift over it the next day.

I typically try to shoot my cab doors hanging so I can do both sides at once, so I don't know about how quickly you can flip if shooting flat. I think Custom shoots them flat, so maybe he can chime in here.

I would trust weight after 48 hrs without marks being created by constant weight. Since I spray & dry them flat I have experienced faint marks in my work worth touching up. The HO had a hard time seeing them.

However, I'd advise waiting a week before stalking a book shelf!

BTW, thanks for the tip on only using water vs extender! My first instinct was water only, but then I second guessed myself & purchased extender. Good thing I didn't use it...

 

[mtnbkr3]

Lacquer and oil will seal the mdf much better than any latex. For me it comes down to it's worth it to spray that crap. If you are getting paid enough to do a premium job use the Oil or Lacquer. If not then use a quality latex sealing primer.