Looking for ideas for prepping/deglossing semi gloss paint on orange peel walls. I can't really sand because of heavy orange peel, too rough. Was thinking of using a scotch bite pad on rectangular pole sander, not as aggressive as sand paper.
Prepping semi gloss painted walls with heavy orange peel for satin paint
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Pierson Painting
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I'll have to look up that thread. ThanksTSP is not really that proper to use on latex painted surfaces.
TSP was originally designed to dull down oil painted walls, when decades ago they were painted with oil.
I remember Redux in one of his posts explained that very well, and why actually is not supposed to be used cleaning latex coated surfaces.
Tho is a good strong cleaner it has some cons, one of them being toxic when using inside, especially in small rooms like bathrooms.
Good ventilation must be provided in small rooms.
Here are more cons of using TSP.
Cons of Cleaning with TSP
Solved! What Is Trisodium Phosphate, and Is it Safe to Use?
Though it's a super effective cleaning agent, TSP is toxic and may not be legal in your area.www.bobvila.com
I would never use that stuff.
- Toxicity: Being toxic, TSP must be handled with care. That means wearing the appropriate protective gear. T-shirts and shorts are a no-no. Instead, wear full-sleeve clothing in addition to gloves, glasses, and a respiratory mask. And if you’re going to be working indoors, you must adequately ventilate the area.
- Danger to landscaping: If using TSP outdoors (especially if mixing it with bleach), use only as much TSP as you need and tightly control the runoff. Be sure to protect your landscaping. Choose a windless day for your project, and hose down any nearby plants, shrubs, or tree branches, both before and after the job.
- Environmental concerns: TSP cleaner can also be bad news for the environment as a whole. If it ends up in lakes and streams, the phosphates trigger an overgrowth of algae that results in a depletion of oxygen levels in the water, which endangers fish and aquatic plant life.
- Local regulations may limit use: You should also be aware that, given the drawbacks of TSP, some municipalities have either limited its use or banned its use altogether. Before starting your cleaning project, be sure to check local regulations. Also note that on the shelves of your local home center you may not find TSP, but TSP substitute instead. The latter is much safer to use, but most agree that it doesn’t clean as well as the real stuff.
- Damage to certain surfaces: Avoid cleaning with TSP in the bathroom; it can damage metal, ceramic tile, grout, and glass. And as discussed above, it’s not suitable for painted surfaces
It's an old school and very outdated product that has no place to be used today when so many better nontoxic alternatives exist, like Krud Kutter Degreaser, or Eco TSP (Phosporous Free TSP), Dirtex and few others.
I wish I had time to look for that post by Redux.
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It all depends on how high end the job! The majority of my clients expected and got super smooth walls. I also sanded between every coat. It does make a big difference!
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Just did some walls skim coated 5x and sanded to 400 and sprayed with gemeni evo 5 sheen. smooth like a babys butt. other walls were 320 and flat eurolux. Big difference to the orange peel that the other painter got fired for.
I think the OP is talking about textured walls.. could be wrong. 🤷‍♀️ Maybe he/she will chime back in.
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195 Posts
I wish I could help you with locating that thread and Redux's post.
I tried various words combinations with: Redux, Paint Talk, TSP, cleaning walls for painting, etc etc in Google, but no luck.
I guess the only way it would be to search in his post history, but that might be a very time consuming process.
Unless Redux will see this thread and will recall where did he posted that, or just share his wisdom on TSP with us again, here.
Also I remember reading on PT about a very knowledgeable guy (forgot his name, maybe Bill??, tho he passed away a some time ago), if I recall
he had his own blog or just posted somewhere.
Another member here quoted and posted link to his very detailed 'article' on TSP.
Was really an eye opening.
I'm not sure why I'm even getting "invested" in this TSP topic, since I refuse to use it. haha
Maybe just to help you out, lol
Well, here is another quite extensive article on it.
WHAT YOU MUST KNOW BEFORE CLEANING WITH TSP
What You Must Know Before Cleaning With TSP - ACTIVE MY HOME
TSP stands for trisodium phosphate and is an inorganic chemical found in various places. Like with any chemical cleaning agent, there are risks associated with using TSP. On the other hand, it works as a high-speed and powerful cleaning agent. Whether TSP is suitable for you to clean your home...
www.activemyhome.com
Couple of very interesting excerpts from it, for those who will decline reading the whole article with all the sub-topics in it:
The Story of TSP
In the beginning, TSP was the best choice for demanding cleaning jobs. It used to be found as the main ingredient in standard household cleaning products such as dishwasher detergents. Recently, however, the chemical has become less popular due to the increase in awareness.
In the 1970s, states in the US started to control the use of phosphates due to its harmful effects on the environment.
When the chemicals ended up into rivers or lakes, they caused algae to multiply and harm other life in the ecosystem.
In some places, the sale of products containing phosphates was banned. This resulted in manufacturers resorting to new products without any phosphates in them.
That’s why today phosphates aren’t a significant ingredient in most cleaning products, even though a small amount of TSP may be found in a limited number of cleaners.
At this stage, it’s natural to wonder: if they’re not used in products anymore, should we still be using TSP compounds?
Read about the “uses” of TSP to get a better idea of why people would still opt for the chemical.
Food Additive
In the EU, various sodium phosphates such as monosodium phosphate and trisodium phosphate are used as food additives.
Their most common use is to act as acidity regulators. The US FDA also approves sodium phosphates safe for adding to foods.
But most of the food additives are not good to consume. you can also find this when you will on Morocco desert tours.
Enhancing Exercise
Trisodium phosphate has become popular as a nutritional supplement that allows people to exercise better.
This assumption is based on the fact that phosphate is useful for the Krebs cycle, which produced energy and is an integral part of the body’s aerobic metabolism.
These are just a few of the many different uses of TSP, which makes the chemical so versatile.
You can use to clean just about any surface, or household item is given that it doesn’t get damaged by the chemical.
Table spoon of TSP in a glass of water before you start your painting day... lolI might try snorting that thing. Sounds like a miracle powder.
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195 Posts
Totally agree. 100%!
I was painting a very nice cabin, color change, to of course, BM "Chantilly Lace", lol
I sanded the walls with 100 grit with my 5"orbital sander set up before starting the first coat, and after first coat also with 5" orbital but with 120 grit (soft touch passing),
and after the second coat with a different sander (that has the sponge in it).
Walls were silky smooth at the end of the 3rd coat.
Here are few picture of that job.
Perhaps I should make a new thread and post pictures from that project in it.
It was a very interesting and fulfilling job in a very nice location, working for a very nice customers for whom I worked on their heritage home in another city.
This is their vacation cabin.
The things I had to construct to make sure that the ladder doesn't slide under me, lol, it was fun, but safety was priority of course, especially that I was there by myself
for couple of weeks at the time, on 4 or 5 different visits.
BTW, all cutting was done with an 1 inch artist brush.
Yes, that was the only way to get sharp lines against beautiful fir trim work, and not doing what previous painter did, as you can see in one of the pictures.
Sorry OP for taking your thread on a ride a bit, but I hope you will enjoy this.
.
,
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195 Posts
You’re probably thinking of Nestor Kelebay @ one of PT’s sister sites (now deceased)…I’ve been held suspect for channeling Nestor’s spirit…I wish I could help you with locating that thread and Redux's post.
I tried various words combinations with: Redux, Paint Talk, TSP, cleaning walls for painting, etc etc in Google, but no luck.
I guess the only way it would be to search in his post history, but that might be a very time consuming process.
Unless Redux will see this thread and will recall where did he posted that, or just share his wisdom on TSP with us again, here.
Also I remember reading on PT about a very knowledgeable guy (forgot his name, maybe Bill??, tho he passed away a some time ago), if I recall
he had his own blog or just posted somewhere.
Another member here quoted and posted link to his very detailed 'article' on TSP.
Was really an eye opening.
I'm not sure why I'm even getting "invested" in this TSP topic, since I refuse to use it. haha
Maybe just to help you out, lol
Well, here is another quite extensive article on it.
WHAT YOU MUST KNOW BEFORE CLEANING WITH TSP
What You Must Know Before Cleaning With TSP - ACTIVE MY HOME
TSP stands for trisodium phosphate and is an inorganic chemical found in various places. Like with any chemical cleaning agent, there are risks associated with using TSP. On the other hand, it works as a high-speed and powerful cleaning agent. Whether TSP is suitable for you to clean your home...
Couple of very interesting excerpts from it, for those who will decline reading the whole article with all the sub-topics in it:
The Story of TSP
In the beginning, TSP was the best choice for demanding cleaning jobs. It used to be found as the main ingredient in standard household cleaning products such as dishwasher detergents. Recently, however, the chemical has become less popular due to the increase in awareness.
In the 1970s, states in the US started to control the use of phosphates due to its harmful effects on the environment.
When the chemicals ended up into rivers or lakes, they caused algae to multiply and harm other life in the ecosystem.
In some places, the sale of products containing phosphates was banned. This resulted in manufacturers resorting to new products without any phosphates in them.
That’s why today phosphates aren’t a significant ingredient in most cleaning products, even though a small amount of TSP may be found in a limited number of cleaners.
At this stage, it’s natural to wonder: if they’re not used in products anymore, should we still be using TSP compounds?
Read about the “uses” of TSP to get a better idea of why people would still opt for the chemical.
Food Additive
In the EU, various sodium phosphates such as monosodium phosphate and trisodium phosphate are used as food additives.
Their most common use is to act as acidity regulators. The US FDA also approves sodium phosphates safe for adding to foods.
But most of the food additives are not good to consume. you can also find this when you will on Morocco desert tours.
Enhancing Exercise
Trisodium phosphate has become popular as a nutritional supplement that allows people to exercise better.
This assumption is based on the fact that phosphate is useful for the Krebs cycle, which produced energy and is an integral part of the body’s aerobic metabolism.
These are just a few of the many different uses of TSP, which makes the chemical so versatile.
You can use to clean just about any surface, or household item is given that it doesn’t get damaged by the chemical.
I might try snorting that thing. Sounds like a miracle powder.
TSP and sodium metasilicate powdered TSP substitutes degloss via saponification of fatty acids which aren’t inherent in modern alkali resistant acrylic formulations so they’re essentially ineffective at deglossing 100% acrylics. Most of the liquid sodium metasilicate TSP substitutes contain alcohols and glycol ethers which serve as broad spectrum deglossers for both alkyd-oils and acrylics….Krud Kutter Gloss-Off would fall into the latter category mentioned.
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Yes!, Nestor was his name.
How I got Bill on my mind is a mystery to me, lol, maybe that member's name who posted Nestor's article was Bill.
Thank you very much for chiming in and sharing your knowledge.
Im 99 percent certain its orange peel texture the Original post was refering too. It says semigloss paint on orange peel wall. To me that means the wall has an orange peel texture. Also why they said they can not sand it due to the heavy orange peel. I could be wrong but that is why I said Just prime with bonding pimer and paint it. If its a smooth wall than yes sand it smooth first but that is not how I read the original post.
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Wow, that sucks...big time.
So what happened, did the glass eventually got somehow brought back to life by cleaning and polishing, or was it replaced?
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I'm assuming you mean orange peel as in the drywall texture, not the paint itself leaving orange peel. That's pretty common in rentals/high traffic buildings.
If that's the case, and it's not oil base, just top coat it with any decent paint, and you'll be fine. If it's oil base, use a bonding primer and then top coat.
It's honestly very rare these days to find wall paint that quality paint won't stick to. It's usually some oddball material. In most cases though, a bonding primer is more than adequate.
If that's the case, and it's not oil base, just top coat it with any decent paint, and you'll be fine. If it's oil base, use a bonding primer and then top coat.
It's honestly very rare these days to find wall paint that quality paint won't stick to. It's usually some oddball material. In most cases though, a bonding primer is more than adequate.
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I had that happen once on a townhouse exterior paint. I thought I was going to have to replace a lot of window glass, but we finally figured out a way to clean them. Luckily I called A friend who was a glazer, and I expanded on an idea he gave me.
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So I didn't tell you all how I got the "frosting " off the windows that resulted from TSP getting on them, because the process was strange, but it did work. I did some desperate research and experimenting, and in the end we did this: Started with single edge razor blades and spray cans of Dirtex. Some one suggested WD40 be added to the mix. Who was I not to try something outside the box. For whatever reason it helped. So we sprayed the Dirtex and WD40 on the "frosted glass" (pun intended), and then were able to remove it with the razor blades. I would say we sprayed about a 12" x 12" section at a time. The blades dulled really quickly, so we went through a lot of them, using a circular motion. The glazer had told me to never clean glass with a utility knife blade, thus the razor blades. Didn't"t put the blades in a holder/knife because they dulled too fast to bother with it. There were areas where I could still see it a little, but it didn't bother the customer.
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195 Posts
Wow, absolutely insane situation.
So happy for you that you got good advice how to fix it.
I’m kinda shocked At all the replies, that all of y’all clean the walls if I were to clean the walls before paint I would use peso or a light sand , ehh na I’d probley just prime them …. For what people want to pay these days I’m painting right over it . For sure cabinets, doors, and exterior im washing all of them , but walls . I’m putting paint over paint . It’s climate controlled I doubt people will be putting their hands all over the walls it will be just fine . Bathrooms a little different as the steam will prob cause issues with adhesion down the rd so yea I’ll prep those more .
I agree. Just painted SW Emerald Matte over semigloss and it turned out beautiful. 2 coats of a pale grey-blue over a medium green was all that was needed. It was a large living, dining, kitchen and several hallways area. I probably would have cleaned and primed if it was a bathroom though.
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How high end the job is or not has has absolutely nothing to do with paint adhesion, and you dont scuff sand textured walls, high end OR low end.
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ya, i wonder if the OP was intended to reduce the orange peel or just concerned about bond. If texture is a thing, scuff and skim. If not, scuff and go.
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